[alchemysa]

Hello Gentlemen,
I have the gearbox out, trying to track down a grumbling noise in reverse. The clutch release bearing is the same as shown in the pic attached. But In my case there appears to be nothing that fixes the bearing retainer to the two arms of the release shaft. The LJ80 manual does not show anything but I imagine there should be a clip or a spring or something that fixes the retainer to the arms. Can anyone point me to a diagram or pic of the missing part or describe what it looks like? I've had a good look on Google but cant find anything.
Thanks,
David

Attachment:

Release-bearing.jpg

Attachment:

release-bearing-2.jpg

[fordem]

09448-12005 - spring, release bearing, quantity two.

Attachment:

lj80 clutch.jpg

[Mike_B]

Can't remember if my Vit had anything, but once it is all installed the bearing is captive between the fork arms and the clutch plate, so shouldn't need a clip...

[fordem]

Different clutch setup - Vitaras have a roll pin on the clutch release fork that retains the bearing. Grand Vitaras have a lip on the bearing mount that hooks behind the clutch fork.

Captive or not, the bearing is always attached to the clutch fork in some fashion so that the fork pulls it clear of the diaphragm fingers when it retracts - can you imagine the racket a bearing would make bouncing off the clutch spinning at 3000+ rpm?

[alchemysa]

Thanks Fordem. Thats just what I needed. The clips either fell off somewhere when I removed it or were never fitted when the previous owner threw this dog's breakfast together. I should be able to make something that will do the job. (I'm guessing there would be clips on both sides of the retainer). And you are right about the racket. I get a weird grinding rattle in reverse and I'm hoping this is the cause. (I don't why it would make any difference whether its forward or reverse but we'll see).

[alchemysa]

Fordem, can you please point me to the SJ410 service manual where you found that clutch diagram? I've got an LJ80 and a Sj413 manual but cant find the manual for the SJ410

Anyway, heres a little update on this. I made a couple of release bearing clips out of hard wire and I think they will work OK. While the gearbox was out I opened it up and found a couple of other issues. At the rear end of the box a semi circular piece of casing metal under the main bearing had broken off. I determined that this would be far too expensive to repair and probably isn't totally essential anyway (in a farm bomb) so I'm going to ignore it. The main discovery however was that the reverse shifter lever was bent and was only pushing the reverse gear about halfway. It was still engaging but may have failed eventually. I bent the lever back into position and put the box back together. Hopefully the combination of release bearing clips and better gear meshing will solve the nasty sounds in reverse. It was also dry as a bone so some oil might help. Apart from that it looked like new in there so I've got my fingers crossed. The box will go back in later this week.

(I should point out the car I'm working on is not the one in my avatar.).

[fordem]

The diagram came from the EPC (Electronic Part Catalog) for the LJ80 - which is what you said you were working on in the first post - I don't have any shop manuals for them - looking at the SJ410, early ones are similar and have the two wire clips, later production uses a roll pin to retain the bearing (like the Vitara)

[sideways]

I had the same problem on my 1l Sierra (same family of gearboxes). I got new clips from 4WD products for a few dollars.

https://www.facebook.com/4wdProducts?fref=ts

[christover1]

I broke/lost a few. Started carrying spares, and always using new ones each time box was out.

[alchemysa]

fordem wrote:

The diagram came from the EPC (Electronic Part Catalog) for the LJ80 - which is what you said you were working on in the first post - I don't have any shop manuals for them - looking at the SJ410, early ones are similar and have the two wire clips, later production uses a roll pin to retain the bearing (like the Vitara)

Fordem. I was working with the LJ80 Service manual from here...http://www.lj10.com/ It has various pics but oddly has no parts diagram of the clutch. Can you point me to the EPC?

[alchemysa]

sideways wrote:

I had the same problem on my 1l Sierra (same family of gearboxes). I got new clips from 4WD products for a few dollars.

Sideways and Christover1. Out of interest what were the symptoms of broken clips? What could you hear and feel? I was getting a rattle/grinding noise in reverse.

I might buy some clips for spares but for now I made my own clips out of the hard springy wire from an old push/pull cable. They seem to be holding nicely. The tall piece at the back went behind the release fork and then was bent, not too tightly, around the fork. (The dimensions in the pic are rough only.)

[sideways]

Mine made a horrible grinding sound when you pushed the clutch in and the pedal travel was excessive. It was grinding the clutch fork and back of the thrust bearing together because the whole bearing twisted out of place. I've got the clips somewhere, I'l grab a pic later.

These clips aren't going to be the reason for a noisy reverse gear.

For your reverse issue it could be the bushing the reverse idler runs on or gear damage. it could be grinding the gears against the case for some reason. My 1l had a slightly grumbly reverse and it had chipped gears, it jumped out under load too but the main shaft had excessive end play due to a dead circlip. Of course, reverse is always going to be noisy with the straight cut gears.

Pull the extension housing off, it's only half a dozen bolts. All the reverse stuff is in the extension housing. You wont need to pull it apart any further than that unless you want to rebuild it.

[alchemysa]

sideways wrote:

Pull the extension housing off, it's only half a dozen bolts. All the reverse stuff is in the extension housing. You wont need to pull it apart any further than that unless you want to rebuild it.

Thanks for the feedback. Yes, I've already done that. I found the reverse lever was bent so the reverse gear was only engaging half way. I bent it back and will soon know if it holds up and solves the noise problem along with the clip repair. I also found that the casing was broken just below the main bearing between the main case and the extension. A semi circular sliver had cracked off along the groove of the 'half circle'. Theres not much I can easily or cheaply do about that so I'm going to just ignore it for now. I'll load it with 90-140 gear oil and cross my fingers. If it turns out to be a problem I'll perhaps try and screw or rivett the broken piece back on. I think the previous owner running the box completely empty of oil probably caused this. (No oil - no end play cushioning!) Fortunately all the gears still look perfect. This is only going to be a farm bomb on a hilly little property. It'll probably never get above 10 kph.

[sideways]

alchemysa wrote:

sideways wrote:

Pull the extension housing off, it's only half a dozen bolts. All the reverse stuff is in the extension housing. You wont need to pull it apart any further than that unless you want to rebuild it.

Thanks for the feedback. Yes, I've already done that. I found the reverse lever was bent so the reverse gear was only engaging half way. I bent it back and will soon know if it holds up and solves the noise problem along with the clip repair. I also found that the casing was broken just below the main bearing between the main case and the extension. A semi circular sliver had cracked off along the groove of the 'half circle'. Theres not much I can easily or cheaply do about that so I'm going to just ignore it for now. I'll load it with 90-140 gear oil and cross my fingers. If it turns out to be a problem I'll perhaps try and screw or rivett the broken piece back on. I think the previous owner running the box completely empty of oil probably caused this. (No oil - no end play cushioning!) Fortunately all the gears still look perfect. This is only going to be a farm bomb on a hilly little property. It'll probably never get above 10 kph.

Sorry, reading fail. I forgot you said you already pulled it apart.

I've got a spare casing that I think is good. If you want I can check it out. Yours for the cost of postage.

[alchemysa]

sideways wrote:

alchemysa wrote:

sideways wrote:

I've got a spare casing that I think is good. If you want I can check it out. Yours for the cost of postage.

Thats very generous and I might take you up on it if my repair doesn't work. I'm now thinking I better go back in and re-attach the broken off piece somehow with rivetts, screws or even small bolts through the casing. Although the main shaft felt very firm when I reassembled it I'm thinking that perhaps it was only the other half circle (at the clutch end) thats preventing serious end play.

Do you have a side view/diagram of the gearbox? I'm pretty sure 'forward' end play is limited by the casing, but rearward end play might be totally reliant on the bit thats broken off.

[fordem]

alchemysa wrote:

Can you point me to the EPC?

Sorry - I have no links - what I have is a pirate copy that was found using google to search for a torrent of the Suzuki WWEPC (World Wide Electronic Parts Catalog) and then downloading and installing it.

[alchemysa]

The pic shows the damage at the rear end of the gearbox. (This is the bearing mount between the gearbox and the extension housing). Its broken along the groove for the 'half circle' retainer that stops the bearing sliding backwards. Although I wouldnt think there would normally be much stress on this point its still a weak area and I wonder if later models were toughened up or redesigned. The box had absolutely no oil in it so I'm guessing that that was the main cause of 'shock' that could have caused this.

I havent enquired about getting it repaired. My guess is that it would be prohibitively expensive. So my fix was to screw it back into place with 4 screws tapped into the casing. I also glued it with Loctite contact cement which is just about the strongest glue I've come across.