[Shadow]

Hi guys/gals,

Just finished my G16b conversion into my SJ80 coily and i'm having problems with starting. Initially I thought it was fuel (and it was) as the fuel pump was not sending fuel at all, so I replaced the pump, however now i'm not getting any spark at the plugs and can't get my head around it. I replaced all the plugs and leads when I did the swap, and I have so far gone through and tested the coil/ignite (manual states between .5ohms to 8.88ohms on primary and I have around 2.4ohms, and 10.4kohms to 15ish and i'm getting 13kohms) have checked I am getting power to the coil and it is a constant 12.4v. looked at the Crank angle sensor, which i'm not 100% sure on to be honest... I'm unsure as to the sequence of the start I.e. does the CAS send a signal to the ECM, which then sends an input into the coil, onto the distributor? I am getting 12.4v out of the coil to the distributor which doesn't seem correct, and it drops to approx. 1.5v when cranking. Any suggestions or hints and just ANSWERS would be awesome as its been playing with my mind for a few days now.

I had the harness done by Killa Kustom Kables and I have no doubt in his abilities from the information I have heard so i'm hoping its just something simple and I've just done something slightly retarded and can't figure it out

Cheers

[shep]

The motor was running well so it must be something (hopefully) simple

http://auszookers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=32198

[Teracis]

No spark at all you say, as in have taken the plugs out and held one on the earth/block and zero spark not just weak?

[fordem]

Are you getting a spark at the coil?

[Shadow]

No spark at all, pulled #1 plug to check it, earthed it on the block to test for sparkage and nothing. Then put the plug back in and looked also, still nothing.... tried the same thing from the coil also... It has a Coil with ignitor combo.. and not 100% sure if my testing was right but seemed to get the right resistance readings. I would think if i'm getting the right resistance of the primary and secondary coils, and a constant 12.4v supply to the coil, my output should be sweet.... unless the grounding of the coil is farked? I did measure voltage from the earth wire directly to the battery positive and was only getting around 9.5volts however o.O

[fordem]

Voltage from earth wire to battery positive showing 9.5V?!? - when you say "earth wire" what do you mean? The coil negative?

[royce]

Stop running around measuring voltage in places that you dont know what it should be, you are just going to confuse everybody

start with the fuel pump, when you turn the key to ignition, does the pump run for a short amount of time and then stop? if not your ignition power feed into the loom is wrong, if it does does the pump run when the engine is cranking? if not then the CAS circuit is at fault, probably got no power to it.

go back and recheck where you tapped into the Sierra to get power, sounds like the wire you are using for ignition power is wrong.

Then get a wiring diagram and check powers, from memory white into the ECU should have power all the time, black/white should have power with key on ignition(and cranking) black/blue should also have power when the ignition is on (via the EFI relay) and black/yellow should have power when cranking.

[azzas15]

Just a simple question. Have you plugged the computer in properly?

I didn't at first and had the same issues with the fuel pump spark. As soon as I realised the plug was loose presto it all worked

Also I had to connect the old sierra alternator wire to get everything to work

[Shadow]

Yep computer is plugged in correctly, And the fuel pump definitely runs for about 3 seconds then stops when I turn key to the on position. I will check this afternoon to see if it continues to run whilst cranking.. have measured voltage at the CAS and getting battery positive there, but didn't check whilst cranking. I will double check the wiring later this arvo, it wasn't a full donor loom, as I had it sent to Killa Kustom Kables, so its mainly just the engine loom, with a few other bits, soldered into the ignition circuit. I haven't looked at a diagram to see which wires are actually soldered, just followed the destructions from Killa Kustoms as to which wires in the supplied loom need to be connected to what source. i.e "the blue wire should be connected to Batt +ve, this can be taken from ignition"... i'll run over them this arvo to make sure. Cheers for the info so far guys

[Shadow]

Ok checked a wiring diagram and had a look at some some voltages on the ECM as per diagram. I couldn't find a Black/White wire in the ECM, so I checked the wires as follows:

White - Memory Power - 12.4V Constant Supply
Black/Yellow - Crank Signal - 0V ignition on, 9.6v whilst cranking
Blue - Main Relay Control - 12.1v ignition on
Blue/Black - Ignition Power - 12.1v ignition on

I have measured voltages on every pin on the ECM, just out of curiousity, but obviously the above ones are the ones I assume have most to do with lack of spark.
I Can't think of anything except whilst cranking this afternoon I somehow managed ONE spark out of #1 plug which gave me a slight tickle I haven't experienced since trade school however I could not replicate this again....

[fordem]

Off the top of my head, Suzuki uses the black/white wire as a "main fuel injection" feed, and one of the things it feeds is the ignition coil

[Rhinoman]

Is it a Mitsubishi ECU or a Denso?

[Shadow]

Its a den so ecu part number 33920-57B4... can't find any reference to a black/white wire... unless one of my black/yellows is actually a faded white but I couldn't see which one it might be. I'll have another look at a wiring diagram however! I used "warbirds guide" for the information on wiring which seemed to be about 95% correct in regards to wire colors and pin placements but there are several pins that just aren't there for the A/T models etc and Calif specs but I'm in Australia so slightly different I suppose.

[Rhinoman]

The Denso was never sold in the US so there a few wiring differences as well. The EFI details for you system are in the supplementary service manual here:

http://www.rhinoman.org/manuals/vitara/99501_60A50.pdf

[stockman]

On my first EFI conversion I missed an earth for the coil packs. Had no spark, might be worth checking.

[Shadow]

The coil (single) has the igniter in it apparently, and has a 2 wire plug going to it from the ECM. Haven't checked continuity between the plug and ECM or checked that earth(which I was guessing was through the ecm also) however I can jump an earth to the plug to double check it I guess. Might be a break in the wire somewhere considering I got a random spark yesterday after playing around with the ecm and harness plugs to the back of the ECM

[Shadow]

Ok, so sorted out the lack of spark issue I had... In the end, it was as simple as me being a retard (who would have guessed) and wiring the coil power supply into the wrong feed off the ignition so when I cranked the engine, it was dropping from 12v to 1.5v.... now that I have that sorted, im getting a spark, but its only a weak orange spark. Not too good and doesn't want to ignite :/ Not sure if its the dodgy spark that won't fire the engine or if i'm not getting fuel. I have replaced the fuel pump, got good pressure at the rail (have pulled the test point and checked it) but can't seem to tell if i'm getting a good supply of fuel into the cylinders. The injectors read 12.5v on either side of the plug with ignition on, but i'm unsure how to test the pulse? I'm lead to believe the ECM controls the pulse by grounding one side of the injector? is this correct, and can I test this easily?

Slowly getting there.

[Gwagensteve]

You can check the injectors pretty easily with a test light - unplug injector, insert test light. I doubt they are your problem.

Yes, the ECM grounds the injectors to fire them.

Replace coil/ignitier IMHO. Tonyevans went though this for about 6 months before he swapped coil/ignitier and it fired up. They seem to be getting to "a certain age" or alternatively don't like being run at very low voltage. (I think what might have wrecked Tony's was being left with the ignition on until the battery drained)

Steve.

[Shadow]

Sweet. I had a look at his post earlier as I though I had dramas with the coil/igniter for some time but couldn't figure out how to test it. I pulled the plugs and only had 1 wet plug... and now I have got it firing but appears to only be on 1 cylinder.. it fires and then won't run... if I hold the key in and continue to crank it obviously fires again when it gets to that cylinder :/

[Shadow]

So had a few little wins with mechanical timing last night... timing belt was out a touch which didn't help the cause... I got a new set of leads for the plugs which are quite tight in the rocker cover around the neck of the leads so they weren't sitting over the plugs very well. I will get he timing light onto it today and check ignition timing. I had it running on 'start ya bastard'... I know its horrible shit but had to make sure that it ran, and this leads me to believe I still have dramas with fuel. Will check injector pulses today also... I tried to individually power each injector solenoid to see if they cycle and only 1,2 and 3 are cycling... getting closer however. It tries to run on but doesn't seem to have the fuel to do it and only seems to be trying to fire on 1 cylinder

Cheers

[Shadow]

Does anyone know where I can get the part number for crank angle sensor in the dizzy of g16b.... dizzy number is 33100-57B1.

[JrZook]

Shadow wrote:

I had it running on 'start ya bastard'... I know its horrible shit but had to make sure that it ran, and this leads me to believe I still have dramas with fuel.

If you got it to run on that stuff and you have spark to all four then this would rule out any issues from the CAS.

Shadow wrote:

I tried to individually power each injector solenoid to see if they cycle and only 1,2 and 3 are cycling

How did you go about this? Did you have a test light on them?

[Shadow]

I ended up pulling the injectors out and cycling them with 12v. Also listened with a screwdriver as it was cranking. Can hear the solenoids click. Tested resistance of the coils and had 14.9-15.1 at each coil (spec is 12-16 ohms) then took them to an injector shop and had them cleaned and kitted. I had an LED test light on them but only got 2 pulses then stopped as it was running/ trying to run??? I finally hooked up the CEL and the only code it throws with the diagnostic plug bridged is 14..... water temp sensor. But that shouldn't stop it from running. (and I have double checked and all the injectors/solenoids click and cycle now...)

[frysie]

on some cars the CTS / WTS will actually stop firing of the cylinders. will try and turn but not pump fuel

[stockman]

frysie wrote:

on some cars the CTS / WTS will actually stop firing of the cylinders. will try and turn but not pump fuel

What's that?

[Shadow]

Water temp sensor/coolant temp sensor... I replaced with a new one and also checked harness as per diagnostic troubleshooting and all seem fine :/ next step was " replace ecm with known working unit"

[JrZook]

What is the engine out of? Baleno? Vit? Where abouts are you?

[Shadow]

Out of a 94 jlx vitara... in Darwin

[shep]

Jrzook, it's the one I was going to put in my LWB

[Shadow]

Its runs sweet when you fire it up.... but won't run on... just don't know where to go to now apart from ecm... and want to be 100% before spending another $400 or more!!!