[frysie]

Are ARB air lockers the ducks nuts when it comes to 4wd'n ? how much do they cost & installation around the brisbane area?

[tanshi]

depends what you wanna do with it.
I like them, other people are happy with auto lockers.

your looking at around $3000 for a pair of them installed

plus your really gonna want chromo front axles/cvs if your going with front locker

so add another $500ish for that.

[frysie]

im going to need to read up abit more about them then. auto lockers?

[tanshi]

why do you think you need lockers at all?

if your inexperienced in wheeling your really better off not having lockers and learning to drive without them first

[henno]

^^ Listen to tanshi, he knows stuffs.

If you are unsure how lockers work (or that they even exist, in the case of auto-lockers) I would just drive the damn thing until open-wheeling is the limitation of where you can go rather than your driving skill or general vehicle capability. I say don't get them...

... yet.

[frysie]

henno wrote:

^^ Listen to tanshi, he knows stuffs.

If you are unsure how lockers work (or that they even exist, in the case of auto-lockers) I would just drive the damn thing until open-wheeling is the limitation of where you can go rather than your driving skill or general vehicle capability. I say don't get them...

... yet.

thanks guys, appreciate it

[alien]

Totally agree with the guys above.

And i'd take an airlocker over auto anyday!!

[Jezza86]

Any coments as to how autolockers go on sand?

[henno]

Jezza86 wrote:

Any coments as to how autolockers go on sand?

Rear: Kinda OK.
Front: Kinda shitty.

EDIT: typos and shit

[tanshi]

same as they go any where else, some people like them, most hate them.
You wont NEED lockers for sand but they arent going to hurt.

[frysie]

mainly going to do sand. good to know thanks

[alien]

shandy92 and i did a test recently on wet slippery rocks (very smooth and had mildew) - i drove up with no lockers turned on and it drove up effortlessly (2wd low range), i then did 4wd low range and it did it even easier, then 2wd low range with rear locker on, and it spun the wheels the whole way up, then 4wd with rear locker on and the rear spun the whole way up (went a little sideways), and then 4wd with both front and rear on and all 4 wheels spun and i kinda crabbed up.

So in essence we found that the open diffs were doing a far better job at keeping me driving in a straight line than the lockers were in this situation.

I think you'll find sand would be similar, given no one wheel ever really has more grip than another - so the diff will do its job quite well when open.

[Red89]

alien wrote:

shandy92 and i did a test recently on wet slippery rocks (very smooth and had mildew) - i drove up with no lockers turned on and it drove up effortlessly (2wd low range), i then did 4wd low range and it did it even easier, then 2wd low range with rear locker on, and it spun the wheels the whole way up, then 4wd with rear locker on and the rear spun the whole way up (went a little sideways), and then 4wd with both front and rear on and all 4 wheels spun and i kinda crabbed up.

So in essence we found that the open diffs were doing a far better job at keeping me driving in a straight line than the lockers were in this situation.

I think you'll find sand would be similar, given no one wheel ever really has more grip than another - so the diff will do its job quite well when open.

Which is why I personally dont think they are worth it. The average person who wheels average tracks once a month or less would very rarely find then need to use them or would over use them simply because they can and so the money you would save by not having them would pay for a shitload of fuel to actually get out and go 4wding.

[henno]

I can see this turning into the usual discussion point of "In what order of priority would you purchase the following: a) Lift. b) Locker/s. c) Tyres."

[alien]

You need to drive it stock for a while, do tyres & gearing first (at the same time), then lockers later if you want them (no one really NEEDS them)... lift is subjective and a whole other argument =)

[fordem]

What about in mud?

[alien]

you've got to remember - all a locker does is turn both wheels no matter which one has the most traction - in a situation where neither has traction its going to turn BOTH wheels regardless... being open diffed just means you spin one wheel instead of two.

Lockers are only a signnificant advantage on high traction surfaces (rocks generally).

[tanshi]

Sorry i disagree. Lockers are good on low traction surfaces, but only if your driving the right line first.
If a wheel lifts its going to spin thus stoping and drive on that axle.
The issue with lockers is when the wheel lifts cos your not in the right place on a track both wheels still drive and you end up on your lid.

[Marko_SJ]

alien wrote:

you've got to remember - all a locker does is turn both wheels no matter which one has the most traction - in a situation where neither has traction its going to turn BOTH wheels regardless... being open diffed just means you spin one wheel instead of two.

Lockers are only a signnificant advantage on high traction surfaces (rocks generally).

I am going to try mine in slop this weekend, hopefully.

Personally, I expect the opposite to be true. But going in the wrong spot will have you to the chassis in seconds, no matter what you drive.

[Jezza86]

tanshi wrote:

Sorry i disagree. Lockers are good on low traction surfaces, but only if your driving the right line first.
If a wheel lifts its going to spin thus stoping and drive on that axle.
The issue with lockers is when the wheel lifts cos your not in the right place on a track both wheels still drive and you end up on your lid.

monley says lock the font of my jimny first for this flippy fall over reason

[tanshi]

The best approach until you get used to driving i find is, try it 3 times unlocked altering your line slightly.
pick the one that felt the best and then use lockers.

the issue with using the front is that you loose manuvourability.

[JrZook]

tanshi wrote:

the issue with using the front is that you loose manuvourability.

Hahhaha that used to frustrate stekky quite well! Could not really choose his line, especially with anything that involved side slopes and a slightly slippery surface.

[alien]

The_Amateur wrote:

But going in the wrong spot will have you to the chassis in seconds, no matter what you drive.

this is my point - in a situation where neither wheel has traction a locker is useless.

[Jezza86]

alien wrote:

The_Amateur wrote:

But going in the wrong spot will have you to the chassis in seconds, no matter what you drive.

this is my point - in a situation where neither wheel has traction a locker is useless.

say if you cant help but get crossed up and you put a front and rear airborne to not get drive. (airborne= insufficient traction for forward drive)
with a rear locker you have to have 3 wheels airborne 2 back and one front to not get drive.
if you have 3 wheels airborne your pretty screwed cos 1 front wheel proberly wont pull the car up. but it may push it back enough to have another go on a different line.

[Marko_SJ]

Jezza86 wrote:

alien wrote:

The_Amateur wrote:

But going in the wrong spot will have you to the chassis in seconds, no matter what you drive.

this is my point - in a situation where neither wheel has traction a locker is useless.

say if you cant help but get crossed up and you put a front and rear airborne to not get drive. (airborne= insufficient traction for forward drive)
with a rear locker you have to have 3 wheels airborne 2 back and one front to not get drive.
if you have 3 wheels airborne your pretty screwed cos 1 front wheel proberly wont pull the car up. but it may push it back enough to have another go on a different line.

IMHO, just spreading the torque between two wheels instead of one in the slop is going to keep driving where others have come to a stop. So many times I've been caught out like that, where the 'low' wheel in a rut digs whilst the "high" one does nothing.

[alien]

Jezza86 wrote:

alien wrote:

The_Amateur wrote:

But going in the wrong spot will have you to the chassis in seconds, no matter what you drive.

this is my point - in a situation where neither wheel has traction a locker is useless.

say if you cant help but get crossed up and you put a front and rear airborne to not get drive. (airborne= insufficient traction for forward drive)
with a rear locker you have to have 3 wheels airborne 2 back and one front to not get drive.
if you have 3 wheels airborne your pretty screwed cos 1 front wheel proberly wont pull the car up. but it may push it back enough to have another go on a different line.

but if the wheels that are on the ground have no grip, you're still just going to spin the wheels on the spot regardless... infact a locker tends to pull you off course when it does this - sliding the rear end around often causing more issues and stopping you from reversing the line you took to get there. I've done this plenty, and its VERY scary when the rear end kicks out and starts pulling you towards a drop-off or deep rut that you really don't want to fall into!

i'm not saying a locker is no good on a slippery surface, i'm just saying that with a very simple test i did, i found that the locker did more bad than good in that given situation. There's probably 5 pro's to every 1 con for a locker, i'm just highlighting that you don't NEED a locker for every situation. One would assume in the test i did that the locker would afford MORE traction, but instead it broke traction more easily than an open diff... something that's best highlighted with a welded rear on the road - anyone that's driven a locked rear on the road knows that there's a hairline between having all the traction in the world then suddenly none at all, something that open diffs completely negate.

[masterA]

Judging from you post, you're only very new to 4WDing so as a few people already suggested drive it for awhile as stock....see what you need upgrading and go from there
Worst thing people get hung up on is trying to 'keep up' with the rest of the people on the forums and their modifications

If i were building a sierra from scratch i would definitely get power steering, then a rear mechanical locker followed by reduction gears, tyres and then lift (if you need to clear the tyres) and finally a front locker (preferably air but mechanical is just as good)

I personally wouldn't bother with air lockers because the mechanical (auto-lockers) on a zook are perfect if they're setup correctly...and yes....i do have mechanical lockers on my zook
Why pay $3500 when you can have the same thing for $600?
If you really do want air lockers, then get the Chinasong ones (do abit of a search on the forum and you'll come up with hundreds of topics about pros/cons)

[stockman]

I've got a spooled rear and a mechanical that will one day end up front. I thought and thought about it but just couldn't justify spending 1000's on ARBs.