[datso]

Does anyone know if anyone makes or is planning on making a cheaper version of the ridiculously expensive RingeR Toyota gearbox adapter to g16 engine bellhousing?

4x4 adaptor retailer

[Damo]

Are Supra and Hilux boxes the same bellhousing pattern?

Sorry to jack your thread Datso, just interested that's all. It would seem a good option for someone wanting a strong 5 speed.

Any idea what clutch setup you'd use?

[joeblow]

400 bucks is a reasonable price, considering materials and machining. nothing wrong with a nice strong vit 5 speed either.

[twitchy]

That's a huge chunk of alluminium they have to use, no wonder it's 400 smackeroos.

[steak_knife]

Not to mention the weight of a supra box.

[Gwagensteve]

I'm not aware of any inherent problems with the vitara manual (or better, the vitara auto)

what's the attraction of the supra box? Sure, they're a strong box, but they don't look to improve gearing in a meaningful way (unless you get the 6 speed) and you're going to need another adapter to adapt to a transfer case/ output shaft etc.

You're also going to need to move the transfer case back to allow for the length of the tailshaft housing.

I guess the reason for the trail-gear part is to run hilux gearboxes and transfers behind G series motors. Is that what you're planning?

Steve.

[2stroker]

Just bolt a toyota engine to the toyota box, problem solved

[kenn]

2stroker wrote:

Just bolt a toyota engine to the toyota box, problem solved

Yeah , and then bolt it into a Supra..

[Gwagensteve]

kenn wrote:

2stroker wrote:

Just bolt a toyota engine to the toyota box, problem solved

Yeah , and then bolt it into a Supra..

Which it is where it belongs.

[datso]

Thats 400 US dollars by the way with no shipping
400 dollars is just an adapter plate
Thats no gearbox included come on wake up Steknig!
the same kind of adaptor can be had for 175 dollars
to do the same thing but bolt on a rotary engine or volvo engine.
So no its no bargain just more Suzuki fashionable overpricing.
I can get a flat piece of alloy for $50 of that size and then have it cut but its no walk in the park unless you have the correct cad or line drawings.

2stroker wrote:

Just bolt a toyota engine to the toyota box, problem solved

and worse problems added. Have you thought what would happen if you strapped an average Biggest loser contestant on your front bullbar for handling on a sierra apart from the extra gas consumed and being released?

Gwagensteve wrote:

I'm not aware of any inherent problems with the vitara manual (or better, the vitara auto)

Its for a sierra with the g16 which really only has the option of either a piss weak sierra box, 3 speed auto. Unless you can fit a Vitara 4 speed slushy or manual with unitary transfer case.

Gwagensteve wrote:

what's the attraction of the supra box? Sure, they're a strong box, but they don't look to improve gearing in a meaningful way (unless you get the 6 speed) and you're going to need another adapter to adapt to a transfer case/ output shaft etc.

Yes they do improve gearing as there are many different ratios available, transfer cases galore and all that suzuki doesnt have.

Gwagensteve wrote:

You're also going to need to move the transfer case back to allow for the length of the tailshaft housing.

only a little

Gwagensteve wrote:

I guess the reason for the trail-gear part is to run hilux gearboxes and transfers behind G series motors. Is that what you're planning?
Steve.

Correcto Mundo General The only way for my second build hopefully a full time mud mongrel jimny.

[joeblow]

DATSO, you can fit the vit 5 speed, i don't do any g16's with sierra boxes anymore. once you have said vit box you have plenty of t/case options, and you can even use it without a t/case. moving the t/case with a vit box will be less than the toyota system.

not everyone hase access to cad, cam or the relevant machines, but its sounds like you have it sussed. go ahead and make one.

[Gwagensteve]

So, behind your G16 you can run:

sierra 5 speed without moving the transfer
Trimatic auto without moving the transfer
Vitara 5 speed without moving the transfer

or an AW-4 auto once you've moved the transfer

Hilux transfers are great in hiluxes, but the lack of any gearing reduction in high range is a hassle unless you run tiny tyres or have 586758658675:1 diffs.

You're not ever going to have breakage problems with any vitara gearbox behind a G16.

but as joe said, if you can make one, go crazy.

Steve.

[joeblow]

Gwagensteve wrote:

or an AW-4 auto once you've moved the transfer

you can leave the transfer where it is with an AW-4. you only have to move the t/case a little if you run dual cases.

[Nik]

Is the seirra box really "weak" I run it behind a g16a with 38 weber on a fully ported manifold, extractors etc pushing 35s.
Yeah I blew a hilux tailshaft doing 2nd gear full throttle launches uphill (yeah v stupid I know) but the point is why be different for the sake of it if there is easier options that are proven to work?
Just my thoughts. I dont know anything bout supra boxes but if you can make it work go for it, my sierra box to vit motor cost me 0$ to adapt but if i was spending $ Id go the vit box
Post up pics if you go a head
Nik

[joeblow]

i have forgotten how many 1.3 boxes i have thrown out over the years. and i have only thrown out 1 vit 5 speed, lots of 3 speed autos, and absolutely no 4 speed autos.

[Nik]

Well there you go
What happens to them, whats the weak point?
Maybe Ive just been lucky.
Thanks Nik

[datso]

joeblow wrote:

DATSO, you can fit the vit 5 speed, i don't do any g16's with sierra boxes anymore. once you have said vit box you have plenty of t/case options, and you can even use it without a t/case. moving the t/case with a vit box will be less than the toyota system.

A Vit box without the transfer case in a Sierra or Jimny, is this by making some kind of cover and fabricating flanges like you did for the AW4 box? I havent seen an vit 5 speed done yet anywhere this way on any forum that I could find. Dis I miss it somewhere here?.

joeblow wrote:

not everyone hase access to cad, cam or the relevant machines, but its sounds like you have it sussed. go ahead and make one.

I have access to local laser cutters like anyone else.
Where did i say I had it sussed? I clearly stated i dont have any drawings or dimensions for something that needs to be so spot on. I wished I had it sussed

$400 US plus shipping is still a rip off compared to other aftermarket W series adaptors. This is where it pisses me to see Suzuki aftermarket dealers supporting each other just to fatten their pockets more. This is why Im contemplating this route. Also Ive never had to throw a W series Toyota box out behind any engine with a minimum of 3 times more power than a G series and pulling at least double the weight of a Sierra.
Also prefer to run a shortened Hilux diff, loads more ratios available and much stronger for abuse.

Suzuki parts wont be around for ever so I figure the logical step is to use the chev-like aftermarket support for the 4x4 community of Yota bits.
I love the lightweight G series engines and Sierra/jimny bodies and that will never change, unless an m series big blocks become attainable.

[joeblow]

the reason some zook places charge more is maybe the fact that they deal with a lot less volumes than other general aftermarket components. very large sections of alloy billet are NOT cheap. a section that large i could not get for 50 bucks, even with my contacts. as part of my job i have to design moulds, and most cases we use aluminium, so i know what the prices are for good quality suff. the last mould i designed was the same size as a bellhousing and 500mm thick, price for that material was $3500.

vitara 5 speed needs no output shaft adaptor or plate, just a new mounting crossmember.

[steak_knife]

Hi joeblow, so the vit box is similar to the Gv box? transfer can be unbolted?
do you use the hole assembly out of the vit very often in sierra`s?


Steve

[joeblow]

similar box, but not identical to a gv internaly. different b/housing. i don't use sierra 5 speeds behind a 1.6 anymore, as the sierra box will blow eventualy. plus alot of the vehicles i build go straight for dual cases, which requires the vit gearbox.

[datso]

joeblow wrote:

the reason some zook places charge more is maybe the fact that they deal with a lot less volumes than other general aftermarket components.

That cant be the case as CNC doesnt have to be in high volumes.

joeblow wrote:

very large sections of alloy billet are NOT cheap. a section that large i could not get for 50 bucks, even with my contacts. as part of my job i have to design moulds, and most cases we use aluminium, so i know what the prices are for good quality suff. the last mould i designed was the same size as a bellhousing and 500mm thick, price for that material was $3500.

No wonder for halve a metre thick of quality billet alloy.
In this case it doesnt need to be high quality billet at all, thats just marketing hype. The lowest cheap grade cast alloy that can be cast will do.

joeblow wrote:

vitara 5 speed needs no output shaft adaptor or plate, just a new mounting crossmember.

This cant be the case if I choose to run a separate transfer case no?

[kenn]

Here's some shots of a vit auto in an LJ 80 . Joe may be able to elaborate on whats what.

[joeblow]

datso wrote:

joeblow wrote:

the reason some zook places charge more is maybe the fact that they deal with a lot less volumes than other general aftermarket components.

That cant be the case as CNC doesnt have to be in high volumes.

volumes speak money, not machinery.

datso wrote:

joeblow wrote:

very large sections of alloy billet are NOT cheap. a section that large i could not get for 50 bucks, even with my contacts. as part of my job i have to design moulds, and most cases we use aluminium, so i know what the prices are for good quality suff. the last mould i designed was the same size as a bellhousing and 500mm thick, price for that material was $3500.

No wonder for halve a metre thick of quality billet alloy.
In this case it doesnt need to be high quality billet at all, thats just marketing hype. The lowest cheap grade cast alloy that can be cast will do.

are you talking about casting a part?, or machining a part? both use different materials. turn up to a shop that has a nice cnc machine and tell them to use the cheapest nastiest material in thier machine and it will be met by a quick f#@k off! you either machine a casting which costs dollars, or use high grade materials for use in a cnc which will cost also.

datso wrote:

joeblow wrote:

vitara 5 speed needs no output shaft adaptor or plate, just a new mounting crossmember.

This cant be the case if I choose to run a separate transfer case no?

no seriously, i have not fitted a heap over the years...................



the vit manual does not require an output support................

NEW CROSSMEMBER AND SHORTER JACK SHAFT................that is it.

[2stroker]

[

2stroker wrote:

Just bolt a toyota engine to the toyota box, problem solved

"and worse problems added. Have you thought what would happen if you strapped an average Biggest loser contestant on your front bullbar for handling on a sierra apart from the extra gas consumed and being released?"

Everyone brings up this weight issue, when you look at it objectively instead of just being brand loyal for the sake of it, mounting a winch on the front of a sierra will add more weight than the difference between a 1600vit and a 4AGE, and it will mount the weight further forward. What is the difference it weight between a vit auto and a T50 ?. Until you have actually had a 4age or 20 valve powered sierra with a T50 you are only only talking about what you have heard from other misinformed persons. Actually just go and do what you are planning, trial and error is a good way to learn.

[datso]

If I can get the drawings or a sample of the RingR i can get a offcut piece to make it for under 200. Then I can get them sand cast in small numbers at Matilda foundry up north.

So a shortened jack shaft thats it! I knew I should have kept my 5 speeds!! finding them now compared to a Toyota Sillycar 5 speed is the issue.
Thanks for the info though JB.

2 stroke,
This is why I wont pursue an auto for this build. The auto serves me fine for bitumen duties but thats it.
A 4age 20v with the water outlet from the rear and the rest to run it and a winch will be heavier by at least 30kg over the g16b with a winch. Id rather run an M18a in that case. Its not about brand loyalty, I do like G, M and J series engines over cast iron blocks of other makes. If I went for a toyota cast iron block the lightest 4age 20v at 121kg will be tossed in favor of a 128kg 3SGE for the torque, better all round performance and simplicity. To put it into perspective the 20v was designed to compete with Honda Vtec b16 engines so it loves to work at sky high rpms. This is not what interests me or works best off road. Im sure its fun in a light chassis but Id rather the 3sge or later all alloy 2ltr or 2.4ltr toyota in an old daihatsu scat.

[steak_knife]

sorry fa sleep`n boss, forgive me?

[2stroker]

Mate until your last post, I (and probably everyone else) was thinking that you were doing a conversion on a suzuki. If it is the daihatsu scat then why not run a 3SGE and hilux gearbox and transfer, no adapter required, bellhousing from a tarago will bolt to the 3sge and bolt to the w series hilux box.

As I said already you realy need to drive a 20v or 4age sierra, paper figures mean nothing, they are just as flexible for slow crawling as they are flat out.

[datso]

Sorry bud I meant If I went toyota running gear Id run the 3sge in a Scat.
Suzuki has plenty of choice engines hence Im staying suk in that department.
Im still aiming for the W series box, transfer case and diff changes though.

Your conversion is turboed? it would explain the torque as the NA versions
Ive driven are no different to NA honda engines, all up high.
Sounds like a good conversion as it is a compact engine but I have a
soft spot for 3sge engines especially that some have no vvl and make
makes over 140lbs of torque which is more than my 4 ton camper
also 160hp without revving sky high. All simply NA, easy to rebuild
and maintain.