[Anthiron]

Hi Everyone

I am new here but yes I have used the search function before posting.
I am looking at buying a little Suzuki as an off-road toy while I finish building my VW Baja (Long term Project......Longer than expected)

I have a thing for older cars and much prefer basic engines/suspension etc.
I have an opportunity to purchase an LJ80 that is largely stock (including the 800cc engine) and looks to be quite tidy.
There are also a couple of Sierras that I am looking at. both have engine conversions that will have their own pros and cons. Both are coil over models with a few other mods.

I know that the LJ80 and a Coily Sierra are at opposite ends of the range but basically I would prefer the LJ for its cool factor and simplicity. My only concern is power and capability.
Having not driven the LJ80 yet (And won't be able to before Wednesday) can anyone give me an idea of their capabilities offroad?

I am sure it would be fine on the beach and fire trails however every now and then i am sure I will want to get it proper dirty and a bit of Mud and tricky stuff is always fun.


I guess My main questions are:

How are the diffs in these things and are lockers available without swapping out for later model suzuki driveline etc?
Will the 800cc engine annoy me or are they light and nimble enough that it is just a fun drive? Yes I know I could do an engine swap but I have enough projects.
Will a relatively stock LJ make it up steep sandy tracks/muddy tracks?
Can I run big tyres? Will I need different gearing and is it available?


Other cars I would be driving with would be a couple of hiluxs, TD GQ Patrol and a few VW's


Cheers guys

Nicko

[Marko_SJ]

Anthiron wrote:

Hi Everyone

I am new here but yes I have used the search function before posting.
I am looking at buying a little Suzuki as an off-road toy while I finish building my VW Baja (Long term Project......Longer than expected)

I have a thing for older cars and much prefer basic engines/suspension etc.
I have an opportunity to purchase an LJ80 that is largely stock (including the 800cc engine) and looks to be quite tidy.
There are also a couple of Sierras that I am looking at. both have engine conversions that will have their own pros and cons. Both are coil over models with a few other mods.

I know that the LJ80 and a Coily Sierra are at opposite ends of the range but basically I would prefer the LJ for its cool factor and simplicity. My only concern is power and capability.
Having not driven the LJ80 yet (And won't be able to before Wednesday) can anyone give me an idea of their capabilities offroad?

I am sure it would be fine on the beach and fire trails however every now and then i am sure I will want to get it proper dirty and a bit of Mud and tricky stuff is always fun.


I guess My main questions are:

How are the diffs in these things and are lockers available without swapping out for later model suzuki driveline etc?
Will the 800cc engine annoy me or are they light and nimble enough that it is just a fun drive? Yes I know I could do an engine swap but I have enough projects.
Will a relatively stock LJ make it up steep sandy tracks/muddy tracks?
Can I run big tyres? Will I need different gearing and is it available?


Other cars I would be driving with would be a couple of hiluxs, TD GQ Patrol and a few VW's


Cheers guys

Nicko

I've never experienced an LJ, and a SJ80 would be like a leafy just harder to mod.

LJ will be better offroad than the coily.

The LJ should do mud and tricky stuff with ease. I think an option for LJ80 gearing on under 31 inch tires is to use an LJ50 transfer (could be wrong, I'm only going off hearsay and what my brain "stores" when I flick through threads.)

Alternatively, you can use an SJ transfer with a reduction gear set, looking at Highway Star's build, and UBZ's (I think) it looks like a fair bit of work, but this is to be expected with an LJ.

SJ conversion starts here:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9557&hilit=anita&start=480

The 1 litre is a bolt in to the LJ AFAIK and by all accounts is a great engine, but it may still be slow as a wet week for you ONROAD. The Suzuki engines lack nothing when it comes to off road, except for the fact they have carburettors which stall or give trouble etc...

Lockers: I think can be a conundrum for LJ owners I'm not sure

There's plenty of info on LJs to get a feel for their advantages and disadvantages on here.

[Anthiron]

Hi marko_sj

On road performance isnt a big factor. I have other rides and bikes for that.

I have some 205/80r16 muddies lying around that will probably make it on if I go for the LJ. Not sure how tall that makes them in inches.

Nicko

[alien]

LJ80 is a no brainer IMO... especially if its tidy!

Quote:

How are the diffs in these things and are lockers available without swapping out for later model suzuki driveline etc?
Will the 800cc engine annoy me or are they light and nimble enough that it is just a fun drive? Yes I know I could do an engine swap but I have enough projects.
Will a relatively stock LJ make it up steep sandy tracks/muddy tracks?
Can I run big tyres? Will I need different gearing and is it available?

Take a look at Tanshi's build thread (or just search the "rigs" section for LJ80 to see a few) - you can do a lot to them, but then there's purists who would sooner leave it stock and just enjoy it for what it is.

[Gwagensteve]

Why are you bypassing a WT sierra?

As in an LJ 80 is cool off road, but pretty horrible on road, and vice versa for an SJ80. Why not split the difference with a WT?

Steve.

[Anthiron]

Not ruling out a leaf sprung Sierra.
Just happens that most of the leaf models for sale around me are pretty rough. Or heavily modded and asking prices high.

I have other cars and bikes for the road so on road drive ability isn't high on my priorities. I would like to be able to do 100kms/hr though.

[superduki]

^^ Worthy Logic!

[greyghost]

and locker for the LJ can be a pain to find

[pezz]

greyghost wrote:

and locker for the LJ can be a pain to find

at least they are out there, unlike the coily front... unless its a custom jobby

[missmyljdaze]

Anthiron wrote:

Other cars I would be driving with would be a couple of hiluxs, TD GQ Patrol and a few VW's
Nicko

if you are in a well sorted LJ, you wont be driving far with that bunch [as long as you dont do something really stupid]

they will be stationary and cursing, while you are cruising past in 2WD and doing this

stephen

[Anthiron]

All my posts seem to still be in the moderation stage so it will look odd when they all appear after each other in this thread but.....

missmyljdaze - The TD Patrol is a bit of a rig and I have embarrassed a few fourbies in my Baja before I decided to reduce it to its individual parts. Having said that.....this is all good news about the LJ.

Hopefully all is well on Wednesday.......will take cash

Nicko

[greenzook89]

And you cant lock the front diff of a coily and reduction gears mean a wt transfer swap.

IF you can find a tidy lj80 jump on it!

[tanshi]

No competition. Lj all the way. Just dont expect driving comfort. Coily wont be all the comfortable either. Plus coilys are almost as gay as jimnys

[Anthiron]

Thanks for all of the feedback.

Checking out one of the SJ80's tonight and then the LJ80 tomorrow morning.

Depending if I buy the LJ then I will have a look at the other SJ hopefully Wednesday too.

[5ierra]

Another for the LJ80 here. (Also great to see another dub head, I have a 64 bug)

I think if you go coily you will be VERY dissapointed. Especially if you chose to modify it later.

LJ's will have a similar problem, but as they are so simple, I feel it's alot easier to adapt things to a purpose. (read as "you will need to know a thing or two about fab work/making shit yourself)

If you want something that is capable, and easy plug & play mods, go a Narrow Track/Wide Track sierra (My prefference would be an NT chassis with WT diffs.)

"How capable are you?" is probably the best question to ask. To what extent do you feel comfortable working on your car? Do you only like to work on bolt ons? or can you fab your own brackets, weld etc.

Highway Star & Tanshi are both great examples of how to build an LJ up, but unless you are VERY mechanically minded and prepared to develope a car over YEARS, it would be difficult to emulate these cars.

EDIT:
Sorry, to answer your questions better; No, no lockers yet/anymore for LJ, you will need to dick around to get another application to work. Same goes for front diffs in coilys (although that may change soon).

You will struggle to do 100 in a modified LJ aswell I believe, I may be wrong, but I just dont see it happening on anything bigger than a 31" tire. A sierra with a 1.6L efi engine on 31-33" tires will do 100Km/h O.K. but I wouldnt like to drive to sydney (thats not to say you couldnt if you wanted to, it's just your revs are gunna be around 3500-4500 with the required gearing for 31-33" tires).


In closing:
Easy fun = pre SJ80 sierra. Any 1.3L/5speed Narrow Track would be my pick. Easiest to plug & play with the best result.
Fun & different = Lj50/80, just harder to modify
Rubber penis in the bum = sj80 for the most part. Suzuki took thier thinking hats off for this car hey, great for a 16 year old girl on her p's, or if you only drive on the beach (i dont mean in the dunes). Other then that, it's just too much dick around to modify for anything serious.

[Anthiron]

Hi 5ierra

Quite mechanically minded. Have welder can weld. Have tools can pull things apart and put them back together working. Happy to Fab/change/make etc. Anything I am not capable of I am happy to try or I have mates who can help.

Built a couple of bikes and doing a bare metal nut and bolt rebuild of my VW Baja bug so yeah that side of things is fine.

Nicko

[3cyl]

Fab capabilities improve as you have a crack at things. I like LJs, that's why I drive one but there's nothing wrong with a Sierra, certainly easier to set up... if you prefer easier.
Glad I don't own an SJ80 though.

[3cyl]

5ierra makes a valid point about cruising speed, LJ50s are 80 km/h cruisers, if you don't want to go up hill, LJ80s will go faster but if you drive to your tracks a Sierra will do 100 km/h even with gears. SJ 80s will do 100 km/h easy but that rubber penis must get uncomfortable.

[Gwagensteve]

I still don't get this. It's (literally) like saying I want an XC falcon or an AU.... But nothing in between.

Steve.

[Anthiron]

It's not that I don't want a wide track.
It's just that I can't find a decent one for sale in my area for the money I want to spend (4k - 5k max)

[pezz]

Anthiron wrote:

It's not that I don't want a wide track.
It's just that I can't find a decent one for sale in my area for the money I want to spend (4k - 5k max)

my advice... be patient, keep looking... spread your search,
nothing like a road trip

[sideways]

I typed this up a few days ago and it's been sitting in a tab, seeing as the thread got bumped I thought i'd post it.

Front axle/CVs aside(like other suzukis), LJ Stockman* diffs are pretty strong. Tanshi was running 33s and wheeling hard enough to win comps and AFIAK never broke anything. He had chromo front axles and CVs though. He's now made up custom diff housings with 1.3l centres so he can run airlockers. It looks like joeblow is going to be making LJ/1l airlockers some time in the future though. The only other options for lockers are lucking out and finding a NOS Lockrite 1520 (impossible to find) or getting a minispool from APIO. There's also Highway-stars Cupercarry/jimny airlocker combo.

*Stockman rear diffs have a 26 spline rear end, much stronger than the 22 spline axles of earlier models. Fronts are basically the same as older ones. CVs are of similar strength to Jimny and 1l ones. If you do the disc brake swap (I can't recommend it enough) then you use 1l/Jimny CVs anyway.

LJ80 engines have great throttle response and can can pull 5 figure rpms, it makes them great fun to drive. With a stock one expect a cruising speed of 90-100. Bolt in a good F10a and you can cruise at 110+, though you will be pulling 5800rpm at 110 (the engine is quite happy doing that, bring earmuffs though).

LJ80 carbs are epic, they are great on angles.

LJs are pretty good on sand, I've got a whole bunch of 70s 4wding mags that say things like "the Suzukis legendary ability on sand". Things have moved on a bit though, modern 4wds actually have power. I get the impression it wont be an issue for you QLD guys though.

Stock for stock an LJ80 will be better than a coily for most things offroad. Better approach, ramp over and departure angles, 50% lower gearing, flat bottom, carby that doesn't die on angles, significantly larger muds tyres, narrower (harder to damage/doesn't get in the way) body.

There's practically no aftermarket support for LJs, Sierra springs fit but have different camber which makes LJs sit front high. You can bolt in an F10a and bolt on the disc brake setup from a Sierra, but from there mods get a lot harder. Hence things like QLD guys custom front axles and diff housings, and all the chopped chassis and tubs to fit Sierra transfers in. Luckily, LJs are pretty well geared from the factory and if we pester tanshi enough he might stop messing with his Jeep and get some of those axles made. Also, certain second hand parts are practically impossible find. Everyone is after panels, light housings, grills, Stockman tailshafts and bonnet clips. They are all super hard to get.

A coily also has practically no aftermarket support but you can bolt in a leafy transfer, rear air lockers are readily available, I assume the power steering conversion is as easy, G16b conversion is a doddle and most parts are still pretty easy to get.

LJs really are shockingly bad to drive. I've got a thrashed out farmer spec WT Maruti sitting in my driveway and it's on a whole other planet in terms of road driveability, a coily is on another planet compared to that. LJ steering is a joke. LJs wander all over the road. Mines got a particularly shit steering box (like all of them, it would seem.....) and it takes an amazing amount of concentration just to keep it in my lane at highway speeds. If you never go over about 80, they're not to bad to drive.

As Steve says, I think a leaf sprung Sierra is a much better all round vehicle than either of them. Neither LJs or coilys have decent aftermarket support, coilys have a suspension setup made out of fail, LJs don't work on the road and both are hard to get basic parts for.

IMO;

1.3l leafy = Life on easy mode. Bolt in mods are easy, cheap and make it super capable. Any part is still readily available.
1l NT Sierra = Little aftermarket support. mechanically closer to an LJ80 than a 1.3l. Many more awesomes than a 1.3l though and not to difficult to find in LWB form. Very modifiable. They're all old and half dead now though.
LJ = Life on hard mode. No aftermarket support, hard to find parts for, all have rust issues, almost impossible to find good ones. Very fun to drive, great offroad.
Coily = Practically pointless, there's not much it does better than a Jimny and there's a lot a Jimny does better than a coily. If you're going to leave it fairly stock then they're an alright vehicle but then you might as well have the additional comfort/equipment/aftermarket support of a Jimny or Vitara.
Jimny = Getting some really good after market support now but still harder and more expensive to mod than a leafy, weaker drive line, fatter bodied and smaller wheel arches but about 800 times easier to live with than any of the above if you wanna daily it.

Edit. If you're after an LJ, find the best body and chassis you can. Mechanicals are super easy and cheap to sort out, the body and chassis isn't. The front body mounts are the first thing to rust out. Obviously, these are body off to fix and structural. Check the bottom corners of the windscreen (lift the rubber, if you can). Any other body rust should be pretty obvious. For the chassis check out the fixed end front spring hanger, a lot of LJs have rust issues here. On the plus side, it's a pretty good excuse to move to LJ50 spring spacing.

IMO wait it out for a decent leaf sprung Sierra. They're far from rare and it's going to make your life much easier.

[Gwagensteve]

Coil sierras are also overvalued. There is no way a coil sierra should be worth more than a good leaf car, but they sell for heaps. You could buy and build a decent wt car for the same money as an average coil sierra.

Steve.

[5ierra]

It took me 6 months to find my sierra, worst part was all the ballbag sellers with Sierra's worth $2k asking $8k, mainly because there's no talking someone down from $8k without offending them... So I just dont bother.

Just to reiterate, I cant explain how many of these I found, its was ridiculous. Haha.

Put up a wanted thread on here and keep scanning Gumtree & Ebay. I usually worked on a 250Km radius, 500Km if i was feeling like a big trip. Realistically, both of those "could" (used loosely) be day trips with a couple of mates.

[Anthiron]

I bought the LJ80

No pictures as I havent gotten it home yet but I will get some up soon.

Very straight and virtually rust free car, Body mounts and perfect and there is a small repair on one rear quarter. Couple of pin holes just above the windscreen and that was all I could find.

Stock motor with reciepts for full rebuild runs and drives great. Recovered seats and the interior is all there and very tidy.
Steering was about how I expected it to be but no worse. No Squeaks or wobbles etc.

It has obviously been used previously to tow behind a motorhome as it has an Aframe mount on the front bumper and a front electrical connection.

All in all looks like a pretty honest car and I think I got it for a good price.

Nicko

[tanshi]

welcome to LJ owner ship.

if its as good as you say it might be a shame to wheel it

[jdk81]

Congratulations on the LJ

I'm sure there was an AZ collective sigh of relief, as we all know you made the right decision.

[missmyljdaze]

Anthiron wrote:

No Squeaks or wobbles Nicko

you sure its an LJ

but seriously.......... congrats

welcome to a life full of awesomeness, only way it could get better was if it reeked of castrol R

stephen

[Marko_SJ]

missmyljdaze wrote:

Anthiron wrote:

No Squeaks or wobbles Nicko

you sure its an LJ

but seriously.......... congrats

welcome to a life full of awesomeness, only way it could get better was if it reeked of castrol R

stephen

2 stroke Motorcycle towed behind said LJ80, then use Castrol A747

[Trebor]

Ok i don't see why there is so much hate on the coily most after market parts for the leafy will fit with minor modifications.
The hard part is the suspension, but if you are prepared to out sorce like i did you can pick up a great kit from 4xfourart (though designed for LHD it still bolts up to RHD) Up your way there seems to be alot of people that have the skills to modify suspension looking at all the work they do to the leaf sprung moddles so you will be able to find someone who could help. the only thing that i havnt been able to work my way aroung is the front locker.

There is more work needed to find the parts and the suspension is more expencive but imo it is well worth it
(now all i need is some bar work so i wont worry so much about pannel damage as it is my only car)