[Trebor]

[Trebor]

There is no way this suspension design can flex

[Marko_SJ]

Where are the coilies?

These guys are talking mainly about the radius arm design of the Jimnys, Patrols and maybe even 79 cruisers. A certain someone on here (starts with "G" and ends with "eve" ) has explained why such a setup is inferior to even an OEM setup such as Range Rover.

From what I recall, it has to do with the suspension bush on the chassis side of the radius arm. RR used the bush "facing forwards" which allows up and down movement as well as some twisting.

Jimnys use the bush on the same plane as the radius arm, it allows the radius arm to move up and down, but not as much twisting.

I'm not bagging on the cars that have radius arm designs, yes they can make some flex.... but they get to the point that they bind up, no matter what style of bush is used.

I dare say that GU has radius arm bolts pulled.

Here's something I found on the jeep forums.

Jeep guys wrote:

They "Bind" can be said of any suspension design done poorly. And most Radius Arm designs fit the poor design label.

The problem with Radius arms is that they don't usually account for the torsional twist of the axle when one side is stuffed and the other side is drooped. This twist is induced because the upper control arm, where it attaches to the lower control arm, uses a traditional radial bushing design.

If you use a linear bushing design where the back half is a urethane bushing (rigid) and the front half is soft rubber, no twisting force occurs becuse the soft rubber allows the upper control arm to essentially get shorter. The rigid bushing controls axle wrap under acceleration.

The jeep guys have issues with their suspension too, don't worry about that.

IMO you don't need anymore flex than that Hilux I've posted, and that has leafs.....

Read ALL of this:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22777&hilit=link+school

With everyone on other forums and magazines wanking on about coils, I've decided I like leafs. Longer spring and shackle makes more articulation. The end.

Edit: after reading link school, it looks like they can bind everywhere.

[3cyl]

Haha. this is funny. What I'm getting at is, say you have a coily diff housing, sitting on the shed floor, in each side you have a radius arm, bolted nice and tight like how it should be. You lift one radius arm from the end and the other one lifts too. You get your mum to stand on the end of the other one and you can't lift yours, without tearing off the radius arm mounts. This is what happens in ANY radius arm setup. That's why there's "Superflex arms".
Last time I looked under a Jeep it was 5 link, (the one in the pic even has aftermarket long arms) front and rear, Patrol and Cruiser, 5 link rear, Defender and earlier Rangie A frame rear. I'm not about bagging coilies, good to see people doing things different, but they're radius arm front and rear with chassis end bushes that won't rotate.

[got_bar_work]

They Gu didn't look like the front was doing much on my phone. After seeing them on a track I can say that the front don't do nothing till the back is maxed out. Even more of a problem is when they pull the rear sway bar.
coil sierras have the same problem because of the coils in the front being out wide and the rears being close together. Rear sway bar make them handle heaps better.
Just because a car has heaps of ramp flex doesn't mean it's any good to drive

[5ierra]

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j273/TuffSJ80/dsc04163.jpg

Careful! this dude might need some limiting straps soon!

Shit stirring aside, there is no smoke without fire Trebor. Coilys are inferior, they lack the durability you can find in a leaf sierra, and as a starting block, leaf sierras will run circles around coilys all day.

If you can fab/make links/adapt other elements to your purpose, then yes, coily's can work. But the fact of the matter is. As far as off the shelf reliability goes, and the availability of aftermarket parts, a leaf sierra will always win out.

[tanshi]

case and point i think is, they made a leafy sierra for 16 years,
they made a coily sierra for 2 years, realised they fucked up and binned it.

[Toughy]

Who cares about coily flex and how much you have to modify/spend to get it. He made the right choice and bought the lj
Now he has something instantly cool before he even spends a cent on it and the lj is only going to appreciate in value when the coily will be scrap metal. The lj is fun to drive , turns heads and brings a smile to your face when you drive it. Was a no brainer

[Anthiron]

Well that escalated quickly......

[tanshi]

Anthiron wrote:

Well that escalated quickly......

Haha, coily owners who think they can run with the big kids

[sideways]

Trebor wrote:

There is no way this suspension design can flex

That awkward moment when the Jeep doesn't have radius arms and the Patrol is proving our point. Look a the rear vs front flex on the patrol. Rear is 5 link, front is radius arm. Even with aftermarket arms, holey bushes and pulled bolts Patrol guys can't get the front to match the rear.

[JrZook]

5ierra wrote:

Fixed the pic link to share the awesomeness

[3cyl]

Anthiron wrote:

Well that escalated quickly......

Um yeah, sorry if we've all started an unrelated argument in your thread. Your LJ is cool, only you know if it's the right car for you but if it doesn't have long enough legs for the highway there's always the Luv truck. I think if you had a coily and put in links, proper Sierra diff housings, proper transfer case, gears, lockers you'd be in a good thing. Hell if it was well driven it might even keep up with an LJ.

[5ierra]

3cyl wrote:

Anthiron wrote:

Well that escalated quickly......

Um yeah, sorry if we've all started an unrelated argument in your thread. Your LJ is cool, only you know if it's the right car for you but if it doesn't have long enough legs for the highway there's always the Luv truck. I think if you had a coily and put in links, proper Sierra diff housings, proper transfer case, gears, lockers you'd be in a good thing. Hell if it was well driven it might even keep up with an LJ.

Thats all the same work you do to a leafy though once you have out grown it, haha, not something you should have to do just to get you on the trails

[5ierra]

Zookie monster & the other fella in the white coily from down scenic rim way did prove coilys can be done, but the work they put in was mega for something you can achieve with a ruf on a leafy.

[3cyl]

Everything's more drama on an LJ too, but still we do it. A coily would be okay with better arms etc, the potential's there, and with better approach angle than a RUF WT. Not sure if it would be easier to put coils on a leafy or all those leafy parts, as well as suspension arms on a coily though.

[greenzook89]

If the jeep guys can sort out pillow ball links and what not with their really short trailing arms im positive there is solutions for a coiler. Its just most zook owners are to tight to put the r&d into it

[ZookFan]

Trebor, Haters are gonna hate mate, I personally think they are fine for light off road work, beach, fire trails ect

But for what most of the guys here on Az do with thier rigs, leaf sierras are better suited to job..

[ZookFan]

Toughy wrote:

Who cares about coily flex and how much you have to modify/spend to get it. He made the right choice and bought the lj
Now he has something instantly cool before he even spends a cent on it and the lj is only going to appreciate in value when the coily will be scrap metal. The lj is fun to drive , turns heads and brings a smile to your face when you drive it. Was a no brainer

BINGO!

[3cyl]

greenzook89 wrote:

If the jeep guys can sort out pillow ball links and what not with their really short trailing arms im positive there is solutions for a coiler. Its just most zook owners are to tight to put the r&d into it

Pretty much sums it up. All the extra effort is the price of being different. People bagged Sierras when they first came out too, tall gearing, no travel.

[ZookFan]

HAHA really 3cyl..they bagged sierra's!

[greenzook89]

3cyl wrote:

greenzook89 wrote:

If the jeep guys can sort out pillow ball links and what not with their really short trailing arms im positive there is solutions for a coiler. Its just most zook owners are to tight to put the r&d into it

Pretty much sums it up. All the extra effort is the price of being different. People bagged Sierras when they first came out too, tall gearing, no travel.

I remember you telling me this out at ripley that day. Fear of something different perhaps?

[3cyl]

ZookFan wrote:

HAHA really 3cyl..they bagged sierra's!

Well yeah, they came out with smaller tyres, less travel, taller gearing.... doors Of course that was die hard LJ lovers doing the bagging.

[missmyljdaze]

3cyl wrote:

Of course that was die hard LJ lovers doing the bagging.

thats not bagging.............thats setting the record straight, and you forgot the important bit, Suzuki failed bigtime by not selling a ringding Sierra in Aus.

stephen

[ZookFan]

3cyl wrote:

ZookFan wrote:

HAHA really 3cyl..they bagged sierra's!

Well yeah, they came out with smaller tyres, less travel, taller gearing.... doors Of course that was die hard LJ lovers doing the bagging.

Less Travel? aren't LJ80/81 leafs the same as NT sierra's? So same amount of travel i would have thought...........

[alien]

spring spacing on the LJ would be way closer than sierra though wouldnt it?

[3cyl]

alien wrote:

spring spacing on the LJ would be way closer than sierra though wouldnt it?

LJ80 had about the same spring spacing as earlier Sierras but with the diff in the centre you could bring the spring spacing in by 100mm like an LJ50 with the shocks moved as well. Heaps of LJs were getting around with a welded rear diff in the '80s too, took a few years before Sierras were old enough for people to do that sort of thing.

[303zuke]

3cyl wrote:

ZookFan wrote:

HAHA really 3cyl..they bagged sierra's!

Well yeah, they came out with smaller tyres, less travel, taller gearing.... doors Of course that was die hard LJ lovers doing the bagging.

Guilty as charged. And you can add "Complex Carbie" to the list.

Didn't like the 1.3 Sierra when they came out. And the Vit? What were they thinking?

[ZookFan]