[troopy]

This is a great read and seems to reinforce some ideas that I'm using in my new build which is lj81 chassis and tub for it's small physical size, a g16b with aw4 auto adapted to a 5:1 atlas transfer with heavily shaved 60 series diffs with rear steer.

I went with the atlas as I felt the sierra case would be on borrowed time on 40's and I wanted the weakpoint to be the chromo axles or traction and the other point is if you feel the car is too light to generate enough traction then it's easy to add weight in the tyres

[tanshi]

Not good Dan?

[SierraDan]

tanshi wrote:

Not good Dan?

I reckon its dumb, but its subjective.

Look on Outers, theres a thread on there with Marcus the homo wanting to use air bags to defy gravity and float over obstacles past the 5th layer of gravity.

[JrZook]

SierraDan wrote:

I reckon its dumb, its subjective.

Care to elaborate?

[SierraDan]

JrZook wrote:

SierraDan wrote:

I reckon its dumb, its subjective.

Care to elaborate?

[JrZook]

LOL not that thing! Elaborate as to why you think the concept is dumb..

[SierraDan]

JrZook wrote:

LOL not that thing! Elaborate as to why you think the concept is dumb..

If my car was trying to level the cab and puff air and be all air bag like while im trying to drive, i'd burn it.

Makes sense more so in ruts maybe, but if you were to do it in a car that actually drove stuff like at TT, it would make the car worse in my opinion.

But, its my opinion not yours, doesnt worry me.. One less competitor to worry about on the leaderboard
Chuck some air shocks in it, and wheel it.


P.S. http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopic ... fy+gravity

[3cyl]

JrZook wrote:

LOL not that thing! Elaborate as to why you think the concept is dumb..

Pretty sure it's been tried, unsucessfully, like traction control. (at TT I mean)

[got_bar_work]

Did he even drive it before ripping it all out

[Gwagensteve]

Pretty sure there was a 40 series there he first year with auto levelling airbags. In don't think it's a worthwhile advantage. The problem with all those systems is that they seem to make the car unpredictable or counterintuitive when the car is (for example) close to rolling and at full flex, or under power.

Rock buggies in the US went through this evolution in the late 90's/early 00's where suspension was getting more and more complex but I don't believe any of those cars work better than 4links/air shocks/swaybars/suck down winches for an event like TT.

Steve.

[5ierra]

Didnt that pootrol ute on 93" rubber have forced articulation aswell? A little different, but same territory, how did that go?

[tanshi]

theres a feee on the line up with hydraullic or forced articulation. But thats manually controlled.

[Gwagensteve]

If you mean Phil Noble's GU with the 49" iroks, it has hydraulics. These are user operated so not what I consider "forced"- in the case of the dobbin struts in that car the suspension remains sprung at all times.
They're cool but I don't think they are required for success.

Steve.

[tanshi]

As far as width goes, how narrow is too narrow? i mean its cheap in penalty points to hook a strap up and if the car is light enough you could literally man handle it on a strap.

it is also free to rock stack so why do more people not stack more. is it a stigma thing about stacking?

[SierraDan]

I stack every track.

Its fun to not stack on social trips a try and find that perfect line.

But in a comp, you're limited on time and penalised for multiple attempts/reverses you have to get it right the first time.

[3cyl]

tanshi wrote:

As far as width goes, how narrow is too narrow? i mean its cheap in penalty points to hook a strap up and if the car is light enough you could literally man handle it on a strap.

it is also free to rock stack so why do more people not stack more. is it a stigma thing about stacking?

Stacking seems necessary but there aren't always small enough rocks that a normal person can physically lift. If you run a course down the order a bit some of the stacking's already done but then some stacked rocks are kicked out and tumble all the way to the bottom of the hills. I think a simple, well sorted machine would be the go and sometimes the most capable machine, or driver even, doesn't win. Lots of stuff breaks and strategy plays a big part. I think it was '05 when Mick got the Mogrover to 2nd, he purposely called a couple of tracks early to avoid damage and penalties, where other guys gave it everything and ended up broken or rolled out of course and lost points. Back then the Mog had simple coils and shocks but the geometry was right. In '08 some other guys had it, put on some coilovers and changed the links, it came home way down the order and last time I saw it it was upside down and on fire. The competition had improved a lot in those few years though and I haven't seen Antunac's new "cruiser" but fron photos and what people say it's on a whole other level nowadays.

[31zook]

Pete rebuilt for Cole and Shannon?

The new owner also couldn't drive by the looks of it... so was probably fighting two battles at once

[SierraDan]

Shannon wont be coming by the looks. Double booked.

[31zook]

Long trip out to dodge cones tho, so fair enough.

[Zook_Fan]

Gwagensteve wrote:

Pretty sure there was a 40 series there he first year with auto levelling airbags. In don't think it's a worthwhile advantage. The problem with all those systems is that they seem to make the car unpredictable or counterintuitive when the car is (for example) close to rolling and at full flex, or under power.

Rock buggies in the US went through this evolution in the late 90's/early 00's where suspension was getting more and more complex but I don't believe any of those cars work better than 4links/air shocks/swaybars/suck down winches for an event like TT.

Steve.

Why a 4 link Steve? What other suspension characteristics would you be shooting for? High roll centre? Low or high antisquat?

[SierraDan]

High roll centre.
A not too much or too little squat in the rear, we tried as much as possible to get the front to "squat" to help with climbing, so far so good compared to the old 3link that wasn't much chop (geometry wise not because it was a 3link), sway bar in the rear, front suck down winch.
Working very nice so far, great balanced setup.

[Gwagensteve]

Bingo. High rear roll centre FTW.

Steve.

[11_evl]

So who went and took notice of the different setups?
What are your thoughts??

[tanshi]

What were your thoughts on your setup?

[SierraDan]

I didn't have any time to suss everyone's cars out.

Looked like you were hating your wheelbase a bit Mick?

The new setup in Jasons car blew me away.

[tanshi]

Just saw a FB post by the guys from the proclaimer saying how the tracks were too narrow and zooks and narrow buggies are the only things that did really well.

seems like this thread is a bit justified

[Gwagensteve]

Pip and Tims car- TJ/U4000 mog axles- hardly narrow
Pete's 40/416 mog axles- hardly narrow
Barzook- dobbin portal 9"- narrower than first and second, but wider than we're talking about in this thread.

The proclaimer didn't fit last year. Funnily enough it didn't fit his year either.

Steve.

[tanshi]

yeah i know, just thought it was funny.

Good to see some of the videos with more track detail this year.

i find it funny that most of the tracks only really seemed to have one really hard point.
not that im say the reast was easy be relativly the ones ive seen had just one pinch point.

[SierraDan]

The Proclaimer isn't a competitive/practical car by any means. Its there for the rednecks.

[SierraDan]

Mini Wirriba and Rock Garden were the hardest tracks this year.
Timmy did a good job of making the Rock Garden a challenge this year, i enjoyed it.