[Samwich]

Hey guys,

I am not very experienced at all when it comes to carby engines (other then replacing a geminis manifold to carb gasket)
I have resantly purchased a Sierra with a 1.3l. and was wondering if anyone would like to help diagnosing the issue.

Symptoms:
- Wont start unless i spray carby cleaner down it
- Idles for about 30secs - 2mins when started then dies
- When pushing in throttle it dies (no power)

Other info:
- Pulled off fuel line, Turned car to start, fuel is clear + enough comes out (all looks fine)
- When throttle is pumped (so it wont stall), as soon as the revs get high enough (maybe over 2k-2.5k by the sound) i can hold the throttle on fine without it dying.

----
I have no idea where to start, with the gemini carb, you can check the fuel level from the front of the carby. you can also undo the front of the glass to clean it out.

Any info or suggestion would be awesome.

Thanks
Sam

[bumstein]

Ok.. Lets see if I can get you a little direction. I'm no mechanic, so if anyone wants to chime and and correct me please feel free.

It's either
1) a fuel issue
2) a spark issue

Start a process of elimination. Pull the spark plugs out one by one, earth them out to the block/head and run the motor. Is there a spark in each one? Check compression while the plugs are out.

Also with the motor idling, try pull the spark plug leads off one by one. Does the motor change? It will isolate if the problem is coming from a single cylinder or all of them.

Have a look at the distributor cap, are the contacts and rotor button in good condition?

If you've got a spare set of ignition leads, distributor cap or rotor button, try them out to see if theres a difference. If you've got a mate with a sierra that runs fine, borrow his/hers. Swap one at a time and see if theres a difference, if suddenly it springs to life with a particular part swapped thats likely your problem. Buy your mate a beer if he/she is of legal drinking age.

I don't know how to test the vacuum advance off the top of my head, but I'm sure a quick google search would come up with a youtube vid on how to check this.

If all the electrics are working well start looking for a fuel problem.

Replace your fuel filter, it's cheap and can solve problems.

I'd take the top off so I can see down the carby (but never look directly down while the engine is running or cranking, if it back fires you will set fire to your face or any other item thats in the way)

If the engine starts working without the airfilter attached, perhaps it's being starved of air. Replace air filter, look for blockage.

The jets could be blocked. Search for a little info on how to pull them out, give them a jolly good clean.

It also occurs to me that there is a solenoid and piston setup that controls idle. I'm not sure how you'd go about testing it but I'm sure someone else could chime in on this one or search AZ and youtube. There was a thread somewhere here that had a little info on it but I can't find it just at the moment.

Perhaps its a matter of taking it to a carby place and asking them to check over it. If it needs a carby kit, weigh up if you want to do it yourself (it can be pretty tricky and may not yield a great result IMO) or get a carby place to do it. Theres a few ebay carbys around or chase up one in the for sale/wanted sections that works. Some guys here will have a few laying around for various reasons, just make sure it works and is complete.

Hope this gives you a place to start Sam, I'd love it give you heaps of guru tips on the matter but I'm not that guru'd myself..

Let us know what you come up with

J

[Samwich]

Just ordered a rebuild kit for the carby,

Does anyone know where i can find instructions on how to rebuild the kit?

Thanks
Sam

[droverdave]

The factory service manual.

Pay particular attention to the float height setting. That is critical for proper operation.

[Samwich]

Where can i get a factory manual? just an auto shop?

[zukmeista]

Can download a manual from http://www.suzukiinfo.com

[Blkfxx]

http://www.suzukiinfo.com/

[Samwich]

I have a gregories manual. When removing the carb it says the manifold has "studs" in it...

My carb has bolts that go through the top and screw into the manifold, does this mean I have a different type of carby to in the manual?

[Samwich]

Blkfxx wrote:

http://www.suzukiinfo.com/

Seen this sight already, doesnt have a rebuild page

[Blkfxx]

Download the FSM from there. Should be all you need.

[Marko_SJ]

The FSM has information on specs and how the carby works..... I don't recall it having a a step by step "Disassembly / reassembly" though.

Just read the manual, learn how it works and tear into it making note of the vac hoses and throttle linkages!

Edit: spelling.

[droverdave]

I have a holden drover factory workshop manual which does have a pretty good tear down of the carby. Mine is hard copy but i'm fairly sure its on that suzuki info website as well.

[Samwich]

Found one, but my carby seems different? Will have to give it ago and hope for the best

[Marko_SJ]

Samwich wrote:

Found one, but my carby seems different? Will have to give it ago and hope for the best

Should be an "Aisan 3a" or something. It should be written on it.

[Samwich]

Will have a closer look tonight...

What i dont understand is in the maual in the above link, it says you need a "tool" to check the float hight? is there another way to do this?

Thanks
Sam

[Marko_SJ]

You use pliers to bend the prongs, to adjust and measure the height with verniers or a drill of the same thickness.

Well thats how I did mine.

[Samwich]

where do i measure between, and is it meant to be 7mm?

[Marko_SJ]

Had to double check the FSM to make sure the way I did it ages ago was right. Its on page 129 FSM, float height is 7mm, and its not from the portion that pokes out from the rest, just sit it down upside down as shown and go from the body of the float.

[Marko_SJ]

Oh and drover dave was right. It does have information on assembly and disassembly.

[Santos]

Most SJ413 manuals floating around the web have the hitachi carb, so that would probably be the explaination for studs. Like its been suggested earlier download the holden drover manual.

In a nut shell.

- You have 4 long bolts to remove the carby from the intake plus any sensor wires and vacuum hoses
- 5 phillip screws to remove the 'lid' and have access to the float etc. remove the top right way up as you dont want the components to drp out like acc spring, float retainer pin etc.
- To separate the throttle body lower from the upper carb body you have 4 bolts . 2 external bolts (8mm head) and 2 internal that you can see in the two smaller holes in the middle on either side of the primary/secondaries. (flathead screwdriver)
- Soak all the parts in general purpose thinner for 24hrs or so. Drain well and blow compressed air through all the orifices. Reassemble.
- Do not forget to buy new vaccum hose and replace all the connection. Do not reuse your old tubes.


If it doesn't work, you can send me the carburetor i can send you back a virtually new simplified carburetor with manual choke, new everything. springs, jets, clips, foam float, vaccumm actuator, venturi's etc for $350 incl return post. Two week turn around upon receipt of old carb.

[Samwich]

Thats alot santos.

Question.. the two flat head screw driver screws where are they? Are the in the float chamber?

[Santos]

Samwich wrote:

Thats alot santos.

Question.. the two flat head screw driver screws where are they? Are the in the float chamber?

nope, flip the carb upside down (after removing springs etc from inside carb or put the 5 philip screw 'lid' back on)
You should see a total of 8 holes. 2 big ones are your Primary and secondary throttle body. the 4 outer ones is where the 4 long bolts pass through to the intake, the two ones in the middle have flathead screwdriver BOLTS. It's a bit deceiving as one of the bolt has a hollow hole through it (float side when it comes time to putting it back together)

Need to dig out my hard copy of the holden drover manual to see how different the instructions are, i've always looked in my suzuki manual which is no help as the carb section is different to the digital USA version.

[Samwich]

Cheers man.. I have no idea how I missed those :/

Also.. when I took the top part off, a little ball baring + another piece the same size as if fell out from somewhere... any idea?

[Samwich]

These are the bits that I have no idea where they go...

Ball baring + little grey bit fell out while I was pulling it apart.

Little rubber bit was in the rebuild kit?

[Samwich]

Also, do these parts go into each other in this order?

[Marko_SJ]

Samwich wrote:

Also, do these parts go into each other in this order?

Yes. Although would have thought the needle would have been rubber. These bits attach to the float and cut off your fuel as the fuel level rises.

Samwich wrote:

These are the bits that I have no idea where they go...

Ball baring + little grey bit fell out while I was pulling it apart.

Little rubber bit was in the rebuild kit?

Rubber O ring goes around the metal bit, the spring attaches to the bottom and the ball bearing goes underneath the both of them. They drop into a pit in the carby, near to the float bowl. The pit will be a similar diameter to the O ring.

Pretty sure this is the check valve for the accelerator pump.

IF your carb had no oring there no wonder it ran like big ring.

[Samwich]

What spring??? :S

[Santos]

Samwich wrote:

Also, do these parts go into each other in this order?

Yes

Samwich wrote:

These are the bits that I have no idea where they go...

Ball baring + little grey bit fell out while I was pulling it apart.

Little rubber bit was in the rebuild kit?

pretty much why should open the top upside down as you will lose these!

See where the accelerator plunger/ rod goes? From memory between it, the float chamber and primary chamber should be a small little cylindrical chamber just a little larger than the ball. I 'd have to look at the exploded diagrams again but i think is a spring to (your might be missing?)

When you put it on the carb be sure to set the throttle cable properly. Dont presume its in the right spot at the moment. I once was chasing mysterious extreme idle (2500-3000rpm) on my suzuki. Took it off, cleaned it out, changed jets, got it running sweet at 900-1000rpm back the front (easier to tune idle) then flipped it right way took it for a drive and the high idle returned. Cause? Throttle cable holding the throttles open slightly causing the engine to run enough rev that the vaccuum held the throttle even more open thereby dumping more fuel and air raising the idle futher.



Keep in mind that once you get the carby rebuilt your 'running ruff' is not over. Although it may be relatively improved if all the other stuff isn't attended to you will be back to the same place. A poor tuned carby with the hot idle cranked up should run anyway. So once the carb has the engine running and its at operating temperature (1/4 way temp gage), set the idle using the hot idle, idle screws, reset the throttle cable again. Then check the timing with a timing light. Adjust if nescsary then reset the carb, then go back to the timing etc.

If you dont know how old your leads, dizzy, rotor and park plugs are then replace them. I once had a day old spark plug fail on my lawnmower so testing all the stuff always is important

[Santos]

ha marko beat me to it. That little o-ring might be for the

Dont forget to clean out the crud that build up between the fuel line entry and the needle seat. Should just be a 14mm head bolt. it has two washers to stop it leaking..

[Marko_SJ]

Samwich wrote:

What spring??? :S

#50 below. The accelerator pump check spring.

Not my pic.