[TomDK]

Hi

Have asked quite a few question about shock earlier. Have now found the shocks I'm gonna use. These http://www.hotbits.org/product.aspx?id=3 Hotbits DT2 for 4X4 They make excellent shocks for racing. price around 300 Euro each.

But now I have another question regarding springs. The ORA springs are just too soft, So I've been looking at some alternatives.

Tough Dog +80mm HD Winch+bumper suitable
King +50mm HD winch+bumper suitable
Dobinsons +40mm Winch+bumper suitable

Before the ORA kit I had +40mm OME suspension. Which are also way too soft.
The reason why my springs are too soft is because of a ORA winchbumper and twinmotor Warn 8274.

What are you thoughts on mainly the TD 80mm HD and King 50mm HD springs?

Thanks,
Tom

[Jezza86]

TD= rocks. extremely hard, but if you want super duper hard, mabie ok? you may have enough weight to make them actualy work but a bit of a long shot.
King= have a specific spring rate?
Dobinsons= have a specific spring rate in mind? Dobinsons are awesome, and will make you springs with the exact rate you want.

JB= 75mm standard rate hold a winch and bullbar up fine. they also have up rated diesel fronts available.

300 euro is a shitload for 1 shock. JB sell pairs of adjustable AVO shocks for about that (website in maintnance so cant get exact price

[Zook_Fan]

Why are your current springs "too soft"? Is the car not at the required height?

Dobinsons seem to have no idea how to make a custom spring. Between the 24 springs that were ordered in a batch 2 of them were the specified spring rate, the others were miles out.

[Jezza86]

^ wow that's completely different to my experience from a few years back but.

[TomDK]

Jezza86 wrote:

TD= rocks. extremely hard, but if you want super duper hard, mabie ok? you may have enough weight to make them actualy work but a bit of a long shot.
King= have a specific spring rate?
Dobinsons= have a specific spring rate in mind? Dobinsons are awesome, and will make you springs with the exact rate you want.

JB= 75mm standard rate hold a winch and bullbar up fine. they also have up rated diesel fronts available.

300 euro is a shitload for 1 shock. JB sell pairs of adjustable AVO shocks for about that (website in maintnance so cant get exact price

The Hotbits shocks are more or a true racing shock, compared to the AVO shock JB sells. The hotbits also comes with reservoir and are easily serviced.
When it comes to suspension, you usually get what you pay for


The springs are way too soft and too long.
The shocks have 23 cm of travel in total. But only have 6-7 cm of uptravel, due to the heavy frontend. And mostly riding on the bumpstops in rough terrain. So way too much sag.

Another problem with the long springs is that when they compress, they hit the shocks with dents and scratches to follow. And yes, I have Castor correcting radius arms

[Zook_Fan]

It's not the spring's fault that your dampening isn't right. You need to sort out your shocks.

If you want the front higher than you need a slightly higher spring rate but only marginally. At the moment your front springs have a rate in the vicinity of 14.06kg/cm assuming the front sprung mass to be around 450kg. If you want it to go up say 4cm so you are at 10cm of uptravel you would need 17.30kg/cm. Those figures are based on assumption not knowing the car but that's the sort of difference you are talking about.

Your springs do not change the way the car handles. They do not dissipate energy, they output every bit of stored energy in them. This means if your springs are too hard it simply oscillates on a smaller cycle. You might think that this is ideal because it doesn't hit your bumpstops any more but the problem is you will have lost up travel.

If you have a soft spring you need heavy compression dampening with a light rebound to allow the shock to drop out quickly. This is where I'd say your car is lacking. If you are spending the money on a shock that isn't tuneable you will be chasing your tail and not just an adjustable switch on the shock, you need to be able to pull the shock down and change the valving properly. I'd be putting in tuneable shocks and a spacer if you want more height but only if your spring is not getting spring bound to get to the bumpstop.

[TomDK]

I hope I don't sound too much of a smart-ass

But I'm very well aware of all that. I still need a spring that matches the weight of the vehicle. Harder shocks wont help me with that. And yes, my dampening isn't right either. But with cheap RC N2.0 shocks, I didn't expect it to be

I've just found out that the +50mm King springs are rated at 140lbs/inch. OME +40mm diesel springs are rated at 170lbs/inch. I've just emailed Tough Dog for springs rates. Standard spring rate is 120 lbs/inch.

Thing is, I don't know what rate the springs I have now is. Will need to hear ORA about that.

Reason for going with the Hotbits shocks, is also that they're tuneable.

I'll try to get as many different spring rates as possible, then weigh the Jimny, also the unsprung weight. Perhaps then it'd be easier to get the right springs.

[Zook_Fan]

If you knew all that why would you ask what other people thought of the springs? Off the shelf rates are rarely actually correct.

Measure the exact sprung height of your coil, take it out and measure the free height. Put a known weight on it and measure the height again. Then you know the sprung weight, can calculate the sprung mass and you can find the required spring rate.

People's opinion of a spring doesn't really matter if your weights are different and I don't think there is another jimny here with a twin motor highmount.

[TomDK]

You've got a point
I ask because it's generally not easy to find any info on this stuff unless I'm ready to pay lots of money for coilovers

The rates may not be 100% correct, but they should give some direction of a suitable spring.

Just got word from ORA. They were unable to tell me the spring rate.

But I'll see if I can't measure one of the springs the way you suggest.

Thank you for your help

[Jezza86]

TomDK wrote:

I ask because it's generally not easy to find any info on this stuff unless I'm ready to pay lots of money for coilovers

the majority of us here still have to drive our cars onroad so a lot of our opinions are irrelevant to your application unfortunately.

[Bugsta]

My Kings sagged under the weight of my roll cage and bull bar. Pretty much back to standard height.

[TomDK]

Thank you for your answers guys. Opinions are still useful to me

Bugsta, nice to know.
I've also found out that King Springs are "only" 140 lbs/inch, OME +40mm diesel springs 170 lbs/inch and Trail Master +50mm diesel springs 205 lbs/inch.

So it's either Trail Master or OME springs for me.
Bit funny, OME springs are only 40mm lift but springs free length is actually 7mm longer than TM springs, which is a 50mm lift. But a much stiffer spring.

[Bugsta]

Yeah without a sway bar, was like a boat on the highway. If a bigger car went by, it was like being hit by a wave.