[atari4x4]

Soooooo... When does mass production start?

[pete_79]

All back together and ready for another camping trip this weekend.




We're not taking the whole tribe with us, so won't need to take the "minipod" on this trip.

It's the smallest pod you can buy and it still looks big on my trailer.
I think it's funny how something that's too small and worthless to a guy with a Prado is so useful and priceless to a guy with a tiny little Zook trailer.

atari4x4 wrote:

Soooooo... When does mass production start?

Funny you say that mate....

No not really, but I was starting to have second thoughts about the lid (thinking it was too big).
I thought if I bought another springs/axle kit and got some more panels folded up I could use the lid frame and knock out another little trailer pretty quickly to offer on here.

But I've got the electric brakes coming (should be here next week) and I'm going to keep the lid as a lid and use it for a while before I make the call if it's too big and heavy or not.

[zukenutter]

looks great

[pete_79]

It ended up being a bit of a wet weekend, but I've got our setup pretty well sorted now and the wet weather is not really a big deal at all.


I had a bit of time on Friday to refine the storage boxes that take up half of the trailer space.
All the food and the gas cooker goes in one box with all the plates, cutlery and cooking gear (including camp oven) in the other box. In the middle is 2 x 10l water bottles and a create with all the gear for the tarps.

The esky we use is huge, it's 110l twin (2 x 47l tubs). But we don't have a fridge and we can easy live out of this esky for 10 days without needing to stock up on anything (including ice). We run the twin tubs as a fridge and a freezer with all food portioned in cryovac bags and frozen before we pack it.







It's getting really easy to set up now, we had this done in about an hour.





Couldn't resist taking a couple of glamour shots after packing up in the rain.

[zukenutter]

Sooo organised

[christover1]

My camper is crying out for some posh wheels, now

[pete_79]

zukenutter wrote:

Sooo organised

You have to be if you want to get away with the family when your cargo space is less than the tray of a dual cab ute.

Anyway; we are having heaps of fun with our little micro camping kit, at the moment we get out bush at least once a month (usually a bit more).
I know this won't be our setup forever, but for now it's all we need. Besides it's good therapy for my OCD


I like to hear people comment on how hard it is to pack the Prado/Patrol and the 7x5 camper trailer to take this misses away for the weekend.
Apparently you need to take 2.5 tonnes of crap for 2 people to go for a weekend camping.

[pete_79]

christover1 wrote:

My camper is crying out for some posh wheels, now

I would offer you mine when I find a pair of 5 spoke rims to match the Jimny. But these 3 spoke ones aren't even worth the freight to get them down to you.

[christover1]

I run Sierra +10 offset on Vit and camper, so I think they be wrong anyway (+5?).
But they be some on offer down here soon, so I can look into it.

[pete_79]

Quote:

Can you get comparison weights of the new parts going onto the trailer vs what you're taking off please.

Here's some more detail on the weights that I'm working with on my trailer and camping setup. Now you'll see how bad my OCD really is...


To start with; the original trailer as it was at time of rego (with tonneau cover) just ticked over 190kg on the weigh bridge.
When we did the Snowies trip we where going into Bendethera which has some very steep and sometimes slippery sections, the trailer had no brakes and I didn't want to risk being over loaded and loose control on those descents.

This is a snip of the spread sheet that I quickly made up before we did that trip to get a better idea of what was going to be pushing me down those hills:

*Note; there is no allowance for fuel loads in these calcs.


There was 3 things I learnt from that trip;
1) It is possible to pack for 10 days in an unbraked trailer to go behind a Jimny while staying very close to the factory specs (not considering the on-road V off-road safe load limit factors).
2) You need a lot more then 20L of water for a long trip even if it's only used for drinking (we had to top up the water at every fuel stop and go for a drive to find a tap when we stayed at one spot for a few days).
3) Taking 20 beers for 10 days camping is just ridiculous and pubs in remote places love to rip off tourists who don't pack enough beers.


The setup that we took for those 10 days was pretty good, but it would be better if we could take more fuel, water and beer. Considering that we where right on the safe limit with that setup, the only way we can take more stuff is to add brakes. And if I'm going to add brakes I might as well add a bit more room to make it easier to pack away everything.

My goal weight with brakes on the trailer is to stay under 550kg (total trailer + load), I don't know why I picked that number, but it sounds good and I'll stick with it as my total maximum allowable limit.


So, by making the solid lid I've solved the leaking, not so dust proof tonneau cover issues and it also let me add the pod to help keep the tent and sleeping gear dry in creek crossings.

On paper all of the steel for the lid is under 30kg, I've checked those numbers twice because it feels heavier then that. But 'on paper' that's what the whole lid should weigh.
The manufacturer specs for the pod are 15kg, it feels lighter then that, but I'll go with their numbers to be safe.
I have no idea what the electric brakes will weigh compared to the lazy axle hubs that are on there now. Maybe an extra 10kg or so??

If I round up these extra add-ons it'll be another 60kg, with a new total dry weight for the trailer of 250kg.

Our current long stay camping setup weighs about 185kg.
Add an extra 40L of water, 20L of fuel and another 20 or so beers with a total combined weight of 70kg, plus a bit for some jerry can mounting brackets and other bits and pieces call it a total of 80kg.


Based on these rough numbers; the new total weight should be about 515kg (total trailer + load) and I can live with that.



I know all of this work with the loads is much more then most would bother doing, but I'm glad I have done this little exercise.
It took all of a couple of hours one afternoon with the bathroom scales to check all of the weights, but it's very reassuring to know what loads I'm actually working with and now I can plan my trips and pack accordingly.




Oh, and my apologies for such long post with all those words and numbers but no pictures.

[striker99]

looks good, in my experience really need to have 5L of water/person/day (drinking water only)... I typically take 2x 10L water containers, 1x5L water container (lives in the jimny) for 2 people for about 3 nights max... Have a pop top camper with 59L water tanks now so not soo much of an issue but :p

[Mike57]

That really useful information Pete, thanks for posting it up.

[pete_79]

Mike57 wrote:

That really useful information Pete, thanks for posting it up.

As long as someone finds it useful.



I like presents.....

Even if it does mean more work.

[pete_79]

When I picked up this kit today I was surprised with how heavy it all felt.
It actually concerned me how much weight I was going to be hanging off the little bearings on my 39mm round axle, so I had to do a comparison.

Weight on bearings:
Each lazy hub= 5kg
Each braked hub= 11kg
Additional 6kg on each side.

The backing plate with the shoes actually bolts to the axle and doesn't load the bearings, but it is another 5kg per side.

So to add electric breaks you're adding an extra 11kg to each end of the axle compared to just having lazy hubs.
But what's that mean?

While I was in the shed with the scales I checked the tyre too.
Standard Jimny alloy rim with 205 75 road tyre= 18kg

Then I used my nOOb search skills to find some other tyre weights:
A new 30 inch tyre on alloys is about 22kg
And apparently a 15 x 7 steel rim on its own is 11kg


So by running standard Jimny rims and tyres with electric breaks I figure I'm loading the axle about the same amount as if I was running 30s on steel rims with lazy hubs.


What do I take from all of this babble?
If I was to do this trailer building thing again and thought I might ever want to add brakes I would start with at least a 40mm square axle and wouldn't have to worry about all this weighing and comparing things...

[shakes]

pete_79 wrote:

Mike57 wrote:

That really useful information Pete, thanks for posting it up.

As long as someone finds it useful.

I'm looking at super lightweight options too. Gives me a good benchmark - your not an accountant by any chance?

On my bike I can get 3 days of kit to sub 22kg. (and on a budget no top end stupidlight gear)

[pete_79]

shakes wrote:

pete_79 wrote:

Mike57 wrote:

That really useful information Pete, thanks for posting it up.

As long as someone finds it useful.

I'm looking at super lightweight options too. Gives me a good benchmark - your not an accountant by any chance?

On my bike I can get 3 days of kit to sub 22kg. (and on a budget no top end stupidlight gear)

Thanks Shakes.
No, not an accountant.

My theory for the whole camping with the family in a Jimny thing is based around hikers and riders.
I figure you guys can pack for a week or more and carry it all yourself, surely we can fit everything we need in this little setup. And so far it's working well for us.

[pete_79]

Striped down the trailer and got started on the brakes today.





The brakes don't come with any instructions, so I did a bit of reading during the week to see how to set them up. I found this little tip and it worked for me.

Set up one hub with a set of dry bearings (don't pack with grease).
Pop the cover off the backing plate to see the ratchet between the shoes.
Assemble the drum and backing plate, pushing the drum hard against the magnet on the backing plate (I very lightly clamped them to keep the front and back parallel).
Then wind out the ratchet to clamp the shoes hard on the drum.
Because the drum is hard against the magnet you need to use some washers between the backing and mounting plates (after the mounting plates are welded to the axle you remove the washers to pull the backing plate away from the hub).
Bolt the mounting plate to the backing plate, fit this assembly on to axle and tighten locking nut firmly.

This makes sure the mounting plates are welded on to the axle so everything is lined up properly and the shoes have the best contact with the drum, this helps you get even pad wear.



Backing plate with washers.




Complete assembly with mounting plate tack welded to axle and packing washers still in place (with nuts loosened off to see the washers).




With everything tacked up, I took out the washers, reassembled the hub and gave it a spin to make sure everything moved freely and the magnet was clear of the inside of the hub.
Everything spins freely, so stuck on the mounting plates with some low hydrogen electrodes (E7016).




I got everything back together this arvo, so just have to wire them up tomorrow.

[pete_79]

When I did the original wiring on the trailer I didn't think I would need (or want) electric brakes, so only ran 5 core wire.
Rewiring with new 7 core isn't a big deal, I got to fix up some average crimped connections and do them all with solder and heat shrink this time.

All set up.



I tacked on some washers to run the new wires for the brakes and made the junction slip just inside the main drawer bar.






All the lights are working and I can hear the brakes are getting power, but it's been pissing down rain all day so it would be pointless going for a test drive today.

[Jezza86]

actually would be handy to make sure yur break controller didnt lock em up too early in the wet/ noload.

hope your controller can do a voltage low enough lol. breaks look the same as mine.

[pete_79]

Yeah will be interesting to see how it goes empty in the wet.

I was just hoping the first drive would be a decent one and I could give them a work out to try to get some heat into them. I would feel more comfortable testing them in the wet after at least one drive in the dry and knew everything was working right.


Have you had yours out for a test run yet?

Actually now I think of it, I haven't seen an update on yours for a while.

[pete_79]

The sun's out today and have just got back from the test drive with it empty.

After annoying the neighbours and locking up the brakes on every corner when I first set off, I've got it tuned pretty good now.
The left was locking a little bit a very low speeds and was thinking I might have to tighten the right side a bit, then after a run at 100ks and a couple of emergency braking tests they seamed to even out.

In the end I got it so they just gave little chirps if braking hard on uneven ground and the trailer got a bit of a bounce.
Both sides are about the same temp, the right side might be running a little warmer and I think I'll back it off a touch if it's still warmer after the next run.

[striker99]

I just bought a very similar set of electric brakes off ebay to fit to my camper...

I bought some brake mount plates the other day, I don't have a welder or the skill to use one... I asked a trailer shop in Brisbane somewhere and they wanted $160 to weld the 8 inches around the two plates onto the axles :O

[pete_79]

striker99 wrote:

I just bought a very similar set of electric brakes off ebay to fit to my camper...

I bought some brake mount plates the other day, I don't have a welder or the skill to use one... I asked a trailer shop in Brisbane somewhere and they wanted $160 to weld the 8 inches around the two plates onto the axles :O

Yeah these are eBay specials too.
They're working, so we're off to a good start. The test will be how well they are going after a few Ks on the dust and corrugations and a few creek crossings.


I would get the mounting plates done properly, but unless you personally know someone in a fab shop I would expect to pay about that (maybe a bit less if you shop around) for the work.
Especially if they have to set up the axle and align the hubs to the backing plates. Though I would expect the trailer shops to more efficient at this job and should be able to do it quickly and cheaply.
Just guessing most shops would have a minimum charge, then add a bit, plus something for consumables.

[pete_79]

Now with the brakes on I want to carry more fuel and water, so had to move the gas bottle out of the jerry can tray and onto the drawbar.

Used a bit of timber to cover the slots I cut in the frame for getting the nuts on the U-bolts.



I think it all looks pretty well balanced now and the proportions are about right.

[Jones]

Looks freaking awesome, I'd give my left nut for that trailer!!

[pete_79]

Thanks Jones, I actually nearly bought one exactly the same as yours.
I recon for around town and beach runs your little one does the job pretty good.



Update and photos are long overdue in here.....

We've done a few trips with the trailer recently and made a discovery that might be worth noting.

I'd been waiting for an opportunity to see if the swing away jockey wheel was going to cause me any clearance problems as the mounting bracket hangs just below the draw bar.
So we found a little hill with a pretty simple track right next to our camp site a little while back and I tried some silly lines to see how bad the jockey wheel could be.
After a few runs up and down I couldn't make it hit the ground anywhere, so either the little track wasn't steep enough or the holes weren't big enough or swing away jockey wheels are just not that bad after all...


But I did find out that the trailer departure angle wasn't as good as the Jimny's....

Playing around on the easy little track.





The Jimny rolled right off this ledge, no dramas.


The trailer didn't go so well.
Departure angle after that ledge.


And for reference, this was the departure angle on the trailer before that ledge.



It only just caught the edge of the guard on the root and the trailer came down pretty smoothly.
I would have liked to have seen a full sized camper trailer (6 or 7 foot long) come down while we were there to get a better idea of how much advantage the tiny overhang on mine compares to a normal trailer.

The bent guard is not really a big deal though, now I'll just fold the other side back the same and give them both a little trim before adding some mud flaps.

[striker99]

Hey bad luck about the mud guards... I am looking at getting a 5x4 trailer used and possibly putting a rooftop tent on it... Does anyone know how much it would cost to get an aluminium cover over the trailer? I tried some online price calculator just for the aluminium and quotes seemed to be between $300-$500?

[christover1]

I shortened my mudguards, and made extra long mud flaps.
Solved my same issue.

[atari4x4]

love my bunnings flares & flood maps for that reason, the ADR specs on trailer mudguards are pretty lame.

[zukenutter]

Just caught up on the last few months, such a cool trailer