[GeckoXL7]

Hi,

Need to replace the water pump as bearings gave way in it.

I read somewhere (another forrum) its a simple job, but going through the suzuki manual it says "Refer to Timing Cover Removal" then goes on about diff removal, oil pan removal etc etc etc.

Its starting to look like a few hour job to a weekend job.

Has anyone replaced a waterpump on a Suzi V6? and rougly what is involved and how long did it take?

If the timing cover has to come off just wondering what else i should consider replacing at same time. eg crank seal etc.


Thanks.

[Zook_Fan]

Timing cover definitely has to come off. There is a way to change the timing chain without removing the intake manifold which will be the quickest way to do it.

You don't need to pull the diff or oil pan, just pull the row of bolts at the start of the sump that go into the bottom of the timing cover. Depending how many k's your engine has it might be worth changing the timing chain and tensioners while you are there.

I did it the hard way and remove the intake manifold which took up a lot of time, for a first time effort I would say it will take most of the day to do if you do timing too or at least half a day just for the water pump.

[droverdave]

There are some nice photos in here,

http://www.suzuki-forums.com/1g-1999-20 ... ins-4.html

Looks to me like once you get that timing chain cover off the water pump should come out without having to take the actual timing chain off.

[GeckoXL7]

Thanks, its done 210,000ks now. Timing chains isnt something i wanted to do. The engine i have has the timing tick fix, i could change the tensioner but not sure if its nessasary?

It does say remove oil pan and Cylinder head covers but cant see why you would need to remove the pan Can see your idea of just removing front bolts, thanks . Chains dont have to come off. I seriously thought it just had to unbolt and bolt the new pump on Why did they have to put it behind the cover.....

I found some oil seals for the cover for $17 which is good since suzuki charges 58 just for one seal. and what ill be ordering is all seals and orings.

The harmonic ballancer / Crank pully I hope is not a pain and was something i was going to replace as well, but need my car and would take about a week to come in from canada. Not going to even look at what suzuki charges for one of them.

[ninjamoses]

I'd seriously consider using a genuine suzuki front crank seal mate (simply because there is so much labour involved to get to it, and that and the rear main seal are the main culprits for oil leaks 9 times out of 10).

Hadn't heard of anyone attempting timing chain cover removal without touching the intake manifold before. Thinking about it I guess there is no reason it couldn't be done. Might be worth a crack if you were just going to do the waterpump only. Anything more than that though I'd be taking it all off. Definitely no need to take the diff/sump off though as already mentioned.

Decent impact wrench for the crank pulley is the way to go. There are all sorts of other methods involved with breaker bars and turning the motor over with the starter etc, but rattle gun will make it a 5 second job.

[GeckoXL7]

Yeah read about that, suzuki has some special tool to lock it. kinda looks like a oil filter wrench then using a steering wheel puller if stubbon.

I have a few rattle guns and 24volt impact wrench which should help.

THese are the seals i got. They seem ok will see when i get them. The timing cover has been suposidly leaking since i baught the car suzuki quoted over 800 to put on a new gasket but hasnt been using any oil so didnt worry about it. Hopping just to replace the stuff i need, if chains etc look worn ill order a kit.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/360788939439?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2648



Im searching for a crank pully locally, but no one lists them. I heard them falling apart on smaller suzuki motors but nothing on the V6's. I think if it had coolant leaking all over it for a while the rubber will perrish now quite quickly, so if didnt replace it, it would be my luck i will crack in a few months time.

[Chop]

Don't skimp on seals on this motor! The exact words from the suzuki tech guys in the workshop!

[atari4x4]

lol

[GeckoXL7]

I got the gasket set from Greg 4wd products and seals from suzistore that say there gen Suzuki I'll just keep eBay ones as spares.

[Abraxix]

best of luck with it all i'd be interested on hearing how this goes for you!

we did this on my old Jeep we had before the XL-7 and to my knowledge, they did the water pump and the timing at the same time, - so i was goign to suggest if it's all got to come off maybe do that as well for yourself or at least put in a new thermostat whilst you're at it, easy access to it and all

all the same, Good Luck.

[GeckoXL7]

Thanks Abraxix ill post photos as im doing it. Just need more sleep and less distractions around the house and lots of coffee to complete it.

New Thermosat will deff be going in.

I dont have the cash to do the timing chains at moment but will defently be checking the condition of the chains and pretensioner and oil pump tensioner spring. Ive done regular oil changes with Penrite Sin and then HPR since i had it so hopefully it all looks good under there.

You know, when i first got the car and had it checked out for the transmision etc and was told the timing cover was leaking, they also said it had two thermostats! Could easily fall anyone with the what apears to be two thermostat housings.

[atari4x4]

you do realise a poor man pays twice... going in that deep & not doing the chains is asking for trouble, timing chain kits are cheap off ebay. i would have hit up greg at 4wdparts for the timing chain & water pump & gone genuine on the seals.

at least if you don't touch them, they should still work for a while.

has anyone mentioned why suzuki say the sump needs to come off when doing the timing chains?

[Zook_Fan]

Because if you want to replace the oil pump and the tiny chain on it you would have to pull the sump. That's a lot more work for a pump that doesn't need replacing.

[atari4x4]

i thought it was because of the studs in the front of the sump? there is a way around it but i'm sure mr manwell states it has to come off when doing the timing chains.

[Zook_Fan]

Like I said originially you have to remove the front row of bolts in the sump as they go up into the cover. The H25 at least doesn't have studs that stop you from pulling the cover. If it did I'd rather double nut them and pull them out than remove the whole sump.

[GeckoXL7]

When doing the chains?, cause of the oil pump, But there are bolts at front that connect to the timing cover,if just them removed the cover can be removed. I dont think there is a reason to replace the top Rocker covers either but im just doing it to replace the gaskets.

If it looks good i wont touch them, if look stretched or stiff links etc etc etc ill consider replacing them just means i will be without a car even longer. I also dont mind taking things apart again and again but i HATE CHAINS!

There are some half a million K XL-7s out there with barely touched motors, mainly the starter motor around 200k.

Must of been bad luck with the water pump but guess that would happen with a leaking hose sucking in air and crap.

[atari4x4]

how hot did it get?

[GeckoXL7]

Is it only me thats having trouble posting

It never got much higher than normal, only once i saw it spike after the transmision was replaced but had no coolant in it, then replaced the hoses which when flushing out the motor there was alot of foam so the coolant must of been getting aggitated by the pump for a bit.

[GeckoXL7]

Parts sent by greg are delivered allready was only sent yesterday afternoon.

[Chop]

If you flushed/changed the coolant recently you probably had a big air lock. Jamie Oliver might be calling for cooking tips!

[GeckoXL7]

I burped the radiator for 20min after replacing hoses, flush and new coolant. Was alot of air in there, but all good when put the cap back on. Thermostat was also working as normal.

Engine didnt get a chance to over heat, switched itself off. Dont know if because of execesive vibration or it sensed something else, was pretty much as soon as fan started vibrating the engine turned off.

[GeckoXL7]

Impressed with the speed of Gregs service. Record time deliverd in 21 hours from order. Even quick for aus post.

Parts came and seem to be good quality esp the water pump that has Metal vanes etc. Been looking at them for a while and quite a few have plastic.

The seals i ordered where kelpro but they didnt post them in time as need the car up and running sunday. Greg had one in stock so got it from him. Its the timing cover seal which i can replace if need. If it was the rear seal i can understand its important to go genuine.

[Abraxix]

you will need some engine polish, cuz sticking a water pump that shiny onto the car will make the rest of the parts jealous! hahaha

[GeckoXL7]

Last time I did this much to a motor I respraid the covers. Who knows I might get creative. Red rocker covers makes the car go faster right ?

[GeckoXL7]

Started on the waterpump removal today.

Proving to be a downright pain in the BUT! Water pump is shot to bits the bearings where actually falling out of it.

Getting radiator out with hoses etc was easy. Most of the day was spent getting the Viscous hub off where all bolts seized, I heated them, used nut splitters, they just would not budge! so ended up having to saw them off, which is no problems as will just have to put new bolts in the new pump.

Now i have given up for the night as the Crank Pully is the next pain in the but! any tips on removing it?

I tried locking it using a brake disk of a quad which bolted to the front where the "special tool" usually bolts too. Then bolted steel to it. The bolts would snap i had a 1.5m extension on a breaker bar. I used a rattle gun but was useless on it. Not enough room for the impact gun.

Im wondering if its a reverse thread? the Suzuki manual is useless on how to remove except use "Special too" at this rate the special tool would of broke.

Images so far.









This is just a photo of matching the bolts up, since the water pump was stuffed i bolted it to that, but with brake disk on front so bolts wouldnt snap, with the long breaker bar it just would not budge and i wont want to risk turning the motor and damaging it. I now know why mechanics hate working on it as the bots just are insainly tight.

[ninjamoses]

Personally I'd be pulling the radiator to make room for the impact wrench (preferably one with 500+ ft/lbs). Has the added bonus that you'll have more room to work at the front of the motor once you've got it off.

[GeckoXL7]

Ive removed the radiator and mount bolts and moved the aircon stuff forward so could put the impact wrench in. i think its a 350nm one, just doesnt do anything.

Seen people put a breaker bar on the bolt and rest it against the body or xmember, remove spark plugs and give it a very wick crank to crack the bolt but i think this is kinda unsafe.

[GeckoXL7]

This Mechanic guy is always good to watch.

[GeckoXL7]

Got it off used the crank metthod 3 split second cranks and she's off. Need 2 new coil packs as stuck on the motor. Grrr

[GeckoXL7]

Breaker bar against cross member, coil packs removed 3 very brief cranks and nut came lose



Crank pulley



Power steering pump and bracket has to be removed.

3 bolts holding pump onto bracket, 3 on bracket to engine 2 on front one on side.