[suzooky]

Ok guys, this weekend im picking up my gti mk1 engine for my suzuki, I am also picking up a turbo, manifold, dump and piping. At first I was just going to use a garndi chip although ive come to a wall. The mk1 uses a vaccuum advance distributer... thats doesnt necessarally like boost. The gti forums have said I can upgrade to mk2/3 harness, computer, distributer and afm.

Although I have seen a few mk1 boosted zooks getting around! What have you guys done? To my understanding the mk2/3 distributers dont fit?

Can you just run it anyway and retard the timing ? Please help guys, just looking to run > 8psi.

Engine is slready in a sierra so im getting everything to get it running.

[henno]

suzooky wrote:

Please help guys, just looking to run > 8psi.

For the sake of accuracy, I assume you mean < 8psi.

[suzooky]

Yeah mate haha your right

[JrZook]

I'm sure you could graft a vac/boost retard pot off say a carb turbo mitsubishi/diahatsu etc onto the stock dizzy. Possibly even buy one new.

[suzooky]

Some distributers dont have the ability to vaccuum retard, do sammy ones? That would definately be an easy option, I thought changing the manifold pressure would work but didnt know there was something like it! Have people ran it in them before ? Id be keen to give it ago, but I cant find one to buy.....???

[droverdave]

How do you tune the ignition curve if you manage to shoehorn a ignition retard diaphragm from some other engine on?

And how are you going to tune the fuel requirements?

I would be going aftermarket ecu so you can make full use of your turbo. Pick up an old haltech e6x or e8 or something of that era. lock the distributer advance mechanisms, size your injectors appropriately, and you're off.

[Gwagensteve]

But most importantly, work out how you are going to use the torque this setup will make. Sierras are light cars and therefore are traction limited - it's easy to break traction off road even with a carby 1.3, so is all that torque really going to make the car better?

Steve

[suzooky]

Fuel requirements can be tuned on ecu. And the curve should come from manifold pressure being turned to -pressure ? The way im thinking is it should run like a blow through but with fuel injection ? Its only really used on road with the odd sand trip. The power could be used in the sand. As for the haltech, id understand having to run it if I was running custom components etc but its only a small amount of boost so im pretty sure I should be able to gey away with retarding and higher fuel pressure (regulator)... if I cant get it running any good ill just run the gri until I can get a full haltech setup. Ill let you guys know what I do and if it works! Have a few ideas to go on at the moment

[JrZook]

droverdave wrote:

How do you tune the ignition curve if you manage to shoehorn a ignition retard diaphragm from some other engine on?

And how are you going to tune the fuel requirements?

He's going to use a garndi chip which I believe is re-flashed with fueling maps for boosted applications. Its what many of the gti guys use for low boost applications. By using the chip you get to retain the reliability of the OE ECU as well as all its functions warm up, limp home modes etc. Off boost it should run as stock.

With a bit of playing you can tune the ignition with a boost retard pot by adjusting the stops and adding a bleed if needed.

Not 100% ideal but a reliable, low boost setup can be achieved with these slight mods.

[suzooky]

No man sorry I think you misread. I was going to use a garndi chip (just increases fuel pressure and retards engine while engine rpms increase) although I cant as my engine is a mk1. The distributer is vacuum controlled. Where as mk2/3 engines its ecu controlled. So I need a way to retard engine nechanically when boost hits, and well thats where im stuck.

[droverdave]

oh yer sorry missed the garndi bit there. Sounds like a fairly dodgy setup, but google seems to suggest that works.

[suzooky]

Its just mechanically controlled, not necessarily dodgy. I have figured out a better way now. On idle at normal manifold pressure distributer will run at full advance. Than I will set timing to 9 or so degrees on idle (full advance) once you accelerate/increase manifold pressure the distributer willvslowly go back to normal position (not advanced, where it would regularly sit at idle). So in reality my new 0 is actually full advanced, and when manifold pressure increases it actually retards back to normal 0...

If that makes sense to everyone

[JrZook]

Very confusing post..

At idle the dizzy will be at the base timing you set. Just above idle the vac advancer will add timing and so will the centrifugal advance mechanism. At higher rpms and high throttle openings the vac advance will not add any and the ignition timing will just be controlled by centrifugal advance. Here's a link to a graphical representation

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-rzpZXP-2c3U/T ... hanism.png

You want to keep these mechanisms so the timing is correct and the engine isn't a dog without boost but you need to retard the overall timing on boost. This will require a boost and vacuum actuated dash pot. They have 2 ports, one on either side of the diaphragm.

[suzooky]

Yes but what im saying is I can make it idle at full advance and set it as my base timing. Than above idle i can get it to retard and hold at higher rpms.?

So instead of being at its base timing and advancing engine as a distributer works. Imagine the disc that the vacuum advance pot pushes on is already sitting on full advance at idle, than you set your full advance to your base timing 8-12 degrees. Than as you get out of idle the diatributer doesnt advance, instead it retards. My uncle is a performance engine builder, he explained it to me today and how to do it. Makes sence once you see it I guess. He said he has done it on heaps of old blowers etc.

[JrZook]

I understand what you are saying. However you will be at full vac retard even before you begin to start boosting. It will work but I suspect it will be a bit of a dog on light throttle and cruise conditions. Will be interesting to see how it pans out.

[suzooky]

Yeah we will see, can always change stuff back to non turbo for a while haha try a few things out

[suzooky]

Thanks for your help man !

[masterA]

suzooky
Where are you located?

I know what you're saying about MK1 VS MK2/3
If you're keen, i've got all the parts/items you require for the MK2/3 including loom, intake, computer etc
I'd be keen to swap with you...you give me the MK1 parts/items and i give you the MK2/3

Let me know if you're interested

[suzooky]

Mate in located in queensland so a world away from perth haha, id be interested once I sort out the mess of a loom I brought, haha definately a proper backyard job

[masterA]

It shouldn't cost too much to send via e-go.com

[suzooky]

Hey guys if anyone is still active on this post. Wverything is done on the car and its looking great but cant get it going, no spark or pulse. Ive taken the harness apart to look and its a mess so i want to rewire it so i know its good but cant find schematics or punouts in any manuals online or to buy. Seems the 86-89 swift manuals are discontinued and akso cant get any links on here to work tried atleast ten of them now.

Any help is greatly appreciated

[porty zook]

Did u get schematics. Realize its been a while since you posted

[suzooky]

Hey mate i did get them, made huge progress with harness but to no result. Thinking i might have to rewire it or pay someone to do it.
I read about negative activating starter but it doesnt whow the on the schematic, do you know what people are talking about ?

[suzooky]

Hey guys if anyone still sees the topic i got a question...
What does the ecm in a mk1 read/sense to know its position and when to pulse injectors. Has no cam/crank sensors and the only thing my harness come with was a neg coil wire ? Any help

[JrZook]

IIRC the mk1 is a fuel only ECU and a very simple one at that. It uses the negative coil wire to determine the RPM and batch fire the injectors (all at once) at a fixed angular position relative to the ignition coil pulse

[suzooky]

Yeah man all wiring is spot on ive tested and tested it. Auto leccy come round and determined it was alternator curcuit ??.... so no spark so than no pulse . The engine i got has a different alternator in it to stock so it wasnt wired correctly

[masterA]

Did you get this going?