[GeckoXL7]

Hi,

Going to put the crank shaft pulley back on soon, there is no special way mentioned in the manual on how to install it just simply install and tighten bolt to 150nm and use the Crankshaft pulley lock tool.

Now to get the timing indicator right, there is a key slot on the crank shaft and inside the pulley, i assume these have to align up? I see no way of them locking together.

Also i read somehwere but cant find it again that greese / oil had to be applied to the shaft? (so they dont seeze together)

I am wondering what the slots are for on the shaft apart from alignment, does something come out when engine running to lock the pulley, or is it simply aligning the slots and the tightness of the bolt is all that is needed to stop the pully from possibly slipping on the shaft?

Wish the manual would be more clear.

[mnemonix]

The slot in the keyway should have a woodruff key fitted. This is what the pulley slides over to align it correctly and apply driving torque during rotation.

[GeckoXL7]

Thanks, I was just reading about that on the 1.6L motors, I didnt see anythink like that, the crank pulley was really easy to pull off apart from undoing the bolt. its possible it fell down somewhere. Just hopping its not another part i have to search for and buy. There is no mention of it in the manual.

[Zook_Fan]

It was on a H25a so I'd assume the 2.7 needs it too.

[GeckoXL7]

Yeah ill have a good look at the bottom of the engine bay and ground, i didnt hear anything drop when pulling it off but i know something defenetly had to be there.

There is also something like gasket stuff on the pulley.

[GeckoXL7]

I searched the hole manual for Woodruff and Crankshaft Key / Pulley key nothing was found. Wonder how many Grand vitara/XL-7s are out there that dont have a woodruff key installed after this thing was removed

[Zook_Fan]

You can see the knotch in the centre of the pulley for the key. It's a pretty standard practice, I wouldn't imagine many would be running without the key.

[GeckoXL7]

Yeah i expected something to be there, they wouldnt call it a key slot for nothing. Im just trying to now find a part number or something.

I still need to have a good look tonight but not even the parts catalog mentions or shows it.

[droverdave]

I would be turning my house upside down trying to find the original one....it certainly had one in there, as the engine wouldn't run without it. Lets hope it didn't drop inside the timing cover/sump.

[GeckoXL7]

Yeah im worried now i was watching it carefully when pulled it off as came off so easily was expecting it to be a real struggle and need a puller to get it off. Didnt see anything in the slots, there was alot of red gasket crap though. I have had the car from pretty much new so its never come off.

I had the cover off with oil drained there was nothing like that either, i checked it several times before putting the cover back on to make sure everything looked right. (BIG JOB) getting it all off.

[droverdave]

Not by some fluke it is still in the crank?

[atari4x4]

Or in the sump?

[GeckoXL7]

Nope not in the crank or on the ground the slot is up the top. So it wouldn't of fallen out easily and I know I didn't see something there before taking the cover off.

Might have to buy one. But there is no part number.

[GeckoXL7]

Lets say i get something like this? and the odd chance there may be the correct size in there.

http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/K72316

[droverdave]

I would ring up some machine shops, take some measurements of your keyway to talk to them over the phone (width and length)

Its unlikely anyone is going to have a keyway for a H27a, but a 5mm x 12mm (whatever yours is) keyway they probably will have.

and if they dont have one, they will just make you one as they are a machine shop afterall.

edit: that woodruff pack is pretty cheap....but murpheys law says there won't be one that fits what you want and you'll need to get it modified anyway...

[atari4x4]

checked the sump?

[GeckoXL7]

Sump checked before cover went on

[atari4x4]

you did the timing covers the other day, but only just worked today that there is a woodruff key... how did you know what to look for when you didn't know what it looked like?:?

it has to be somewhere... my guess is the sump.

[GeckoXL7]

i knew something was meant to be there, i didnt think anything of it as there was nothing in the grove when took it off. If it was in the sump it would of been near the oil pump and nothing was there, I could take the whole sump off but that would be a pain and take a while.

its 5 wide x 12 long (hard to measure being behind case) x 3 high (pulley groove)

[fordem]

#08341-31059 - there should be two of them - one each for the timing chain pulley & accessory drive belt pulley.

Seems to me like your car is missing a lot of pieces...

[GeckoXL7]

Yep fordem like the spark plug tube seals, def not there but could see now where they would go once the coves where on.

Thanks for the part number.

The car engine did squeal alot on hot days with aircon first on or when first start the car even though belts where properly tensioned.


There was red gasket seal on the bolt washer bit to the crank pulley i gather it may of been off maybe when they replaced the belts lost the part and then just used gasket sealant to try and stop it from rotating? I dont know but def couldnt find it.

[GeckoXL7]

Got to love how suzuki uses alot of parts in everything such as marine and bikes as long as you have the part number its bound to be shown on a marine site..

http://www.seapower.com.au/products/eng ... 00key.aspx

[atari4x4]

I'd take a guess that Suzuki (formerly in the) City would probably have them on the shelf as a consumable item.

[GeckoXL7]

yeah avoid the city not the same since being taken over parts prices are through the roooooof. prob end up charging me 50 for it when it costs 2.45 or 1.97 us. Ill give them a call and see if they have one and how much. they always ask for vin, cant look up part with out it. I have even given part numbers before.

[Chop]

I've noticed something else missing from that motor, a mechanic!

[GeckoXL7]

Yeah maybe, found a good one, but this would of cost a lot which at moment aint what i need (esp after the transmission), its allready costed a fair bit in parts, new bolts, new rubber hoses, gaskets, thermostat, waterpump, crap oil for flush and good oil, pvc valves etc etc at least the job will be done right (hopefully )

I have had a very bad run with mechanics, my little mistakes are less than a hand full compared to the massive mistakes or downright stupidness to rip us off, mechanics have done. Two motors have been destroyed on high spec volvo's one the MTA was envolved as a simple $65 injecor clean ended up costing us $6500 in a engine rebuild which before was a great running motor with nothing wrong, and the crap i was told when got the suzuki checked over and belts + fuel filter change (clutch gone, timing cover leaking, ended up being $25 bolt, engine did not use one drop of oil for 6 years after) it hadn’t been back apart from the Clutch (didn’t want to see the car again) and the transmission ( a good mechanic)

The engine apart from missing some parts (spark plug tube seals and Woodruff key) its never been a problem and was surprisingly clean (apart form the crap on the front of the Motor My second volvo had to go to a dealer due to the warranty aggreement ended up costing me around 15grand in repair bills, if could do it my self prob only would of been around 2, the suzuki since i had it prob cost around 5 in the last 8 years if took it to a mechanic who would of been 4 times that.

[droverdave]

The woodruff key was not missing....or the engine wouldn't run. The red glue was not acting as a woodruff key.

If you cant find it, and your positive its not in the sump or inside the engine you're only option is to buy another. From googling around it appears they are a standard sizes, so like i said above, ring up a few engine machine shops and see what they can offer. It wouldn't surprise me if they have a whole box of them behind the counter and will sell you one for $5.

[mnemonix]

I'm with Dave on this one.
That engine had a woodruff key, it has been misplaced during disassembly. It simply cannot run without it, and no amount of sealant or bolt tension will be sufficient.
This is really apprentice level stuff. I hope you haven't performed any more detailed work if things are going wrong here.

A replacement key should be in stock at any dealer for a couple of gold coins.

[GeckoXL7]

If the Woodruff key was missing on a crank pulley that had the timing belt on it the engine would not run, but all the crank pulley does on a H27A is drive the alternator, PS pump and aircon + dampen / ballance the crank shaft . THe crank angle is not sensed by the pulley on this motor.
The whole slot on the pulley was filled with the red glue. I had to clean it off the pulley both sides and the shaft + bolt there was so much of it.

The key or something simalar as no mention of it in the manual was the first thing i was looking for as saw the slots, and wondered about when took the pulley off. There simply was nothing there and im not going mental thinking about it either. I had a large bucket under the motor as well nothing apart from a bit of coolant was in it and nothing in the oil pan either, when i checked it before putting the timing cover back on.

Ill go into suzuki and get one today.

[droverdave]

GeckoXL7 wrote:

If the Woodruff key was missing on a crank pulley that had the timing belt on it the engine would not run, but all the crank pulley does on a H27A is drive the alternator, PS pump and aircon + dampen / ballance the crank shaft . THe crank angle is not sensed by the pulley on this motor.

ah you are certainly correct there. Apologies I had it in my mind the crank angle was sensed by that pulley.

Its certainly not ideal, but possible with enough muscles the front bolt might have been enough just to drive the pulleys.

It is odd that it is not explicitly mentioned in the manual, its possible they left it out as it is sort of "assumed" knowledge.

Who owned this car before you? Did i read somewhere that you have had it since close to new?

If you look very closely in this photo you can just see the key.

You sure the key isnt poking out like that on yours? I wonder if if is the same key used to align the timing pulley.