[atari4x4]

ninjamoses wrote:

PS: Please paint the strut brace black. Engine covers actually turned out pretty good. I can't say the same for the strut brace . At the very least paint it the same blue as the motor.

it's like each time he paints something he gets it one shade closer to calmini blue... it's pretty funny that peeps in the know paint calimari bits black.

[GeckoXL7]

Mucrod, the controler is not a dedicated Fan or EWP controller its fully programable and has a acuracy of .5 degrees, it should arrive soon so will put up a picture once installed, it should fit in where the ashtray use to be. Ill put the temp probe at back of motor next to engine sensor to be as acruate as possible, im pretty sure i can calibrate the sensor too and if can will calibrate to ECU temp.

80W is stamped on the motor of the fan = 7amps each I have to put a new wire to the batt for the Current meter as its up and down. when on the voltage goes from 14.3 to 14.06

Ninja, i wasnt going to paint it originally that blue, how about same colour as the car? catseye blue.

Update: Oil seems to be good, noise went away this morn but there was another noise sprayed some wd40 on the idler pully and it went away.. Slightly squeeky belt prob some oil fell on the pulley.
Temp was very stable all the way to work at idel sat at 88 cruising between 91 and 93 never went over, even going up a hill or over a bridge. and best of all no flat spots i always had one bellow 2300rpm for last few years now gone! car is quite torqueee and quite too apart from the exhaust.

I think i prob could put the 82 switch back as the fans stay on alot, or ill just wait till the controller comes.

[GeckoXL7]

Mucrod this is the controller.

[murcod]

That doesn't look like an automotive fan controller - but an industrial load controller?

Can you post a picture of your fan? I was thinking about it last night - the fact your fan can quickly drop the temperature at idle doesn't indicate it's got enough capacity. You'll have the biggest issues with the A/C on going up hills on 40 C plus days (or your example of slow going through sand.) That was where my first attempt (on a Daihatsu Feroza) always came unstuck. Then you get the engine coolant overheating which means the engine is more likely to detonate, which in turn generates more heat - things can spiral very quickly.

PS: You'll probably find your A/C condensor fan will be coming on? There's a safety system built in where it will get switched on if the engine is overheating (even with the A/C switched off.) I discovered that on mine when experimenting with the fan instal many years ago.

[GeckoXL7]

Yeah its a industrial controller can be used for a range of things eg fridges/freezers, ovens, brewing, fan controll, airconditioning etc etc etc, i want to manually set when the fans turn on and off.

Had the aircon on yesterday went well, but dont know what it will be like on +40 days the fans flow 2500cfm.

I dont have a picture of the fans when out the box but these are them installed. They do flow ALOT of air.

The top of radiator when measured was around 76 when fans on the bottom is a measly 33 i gather that is good enough? This was sitting in driveway at idle just after i put the radiator / flush and new coolant while testing testing etc. Have to test again after a long drive home when everything has had time to heat up.

[droverdave]

They are flowing alot of air over 60% of the radiator. If it works it works, but to me its alot of work and cash for no advantage.

Ive played with those fan controllers before, built a jaycar kit yrs ago, it was a bit of fun, but if i was to do it again i'd just get a thermoswitch thing from a FWD car, put it in the inner loop of the coolant system, use it to drive a relay, and never touch it again.

There is a catalogue around that gives you all of the turn on turn off temperatures too, so you can pick whatever temperature you like.

http://www.tridon.com.au/Products/Produ ... 483&P=2014

item number TFS104 is a dual circuit switch, so you can stage your fans, thats pretty cool.

[murcod]

You really need the fans spaced back with a shroud around them, so they suck air through the whole core. As Droverdave said, they are only flowing air over a relatively small percentage of the radiator.

Is that load controller 12v- I thought the industrial stuff was usually 24v?

[GeckoXL7]

Thanks droverdave i have a good DeRale relay system with a manual override with a 82degree thermo switch, but i relocated that switch to the thermostat housing and have another switch on the radiator as a failsafe.

I was going to connect the digital controller up to the manual override and use it to monitor the tempratures but also so i can make it switch on and off in a much smaller temp range at moment fans turn on at around 92 and turn off at 82 so pretty much they stay on all the time. Having the controller i can set to switch on say 95 and switch off at 92. I thought of staging the fans too eg one at 90 just for some flow and other at 95. Or both at half speed above 88 full speed at 95.

I havent actually spent much on it overall spent at most 150 on both fans, controller and digital controller its all factory direct hence no over the top mark ups.

Mucrod, the fans are positioned so all fins will be cooled, it will be a piece of cake to make aloy shroud and prob cost around 30$ The controller is 12volt they come in 12, 24, 48, 110 and 240v then a range of relay currents the one i have has 2 10amp relays, but will use it to switch the 40amp relay for the fans.

[atari4x4]

what bit of freeway are you testing it on?

[GeckoXL7]

Sailsbury so pretty flat.

Temp is alot more stable after the oil change.

[GeckoXL7]

Coverage i worked out for the fans to be 51% of radiator looks more but thats the calculated number. Kinda really need a min of 65%

Also read that shrouds can affect high speed cooling as it restricts the flow. Ill see how this goes over the next few days as its going to be 31 on thursday and see if coolant temp increases that day.

having a wider radiator allows to make better use of the fans or allow a bigger one, for this radiator would of been better of with one 16" installed in old shroud.

[atari4x4]

after hours take it up dyno hill rd (flagstaff hill rd) do a run up giving it a fair bit of curry getting everything warm & checking for the fuzz flip, a u turn somewhere it levels out up the top, come back down, right onto south rd, flip another u turn at the macca's & come back up south rd & pull into the supercheap carpark on the left & pop out at the bottom of flaggy rd & wait for the traffic to cycle & go again, but do a full pull from the driveway exit... it's a decent hill but pretty still short, has been used many many times & where it levels off up the top is good to see how well it recovers from the heat cycle.

do that or hit up the tunnels, but flaggy would be closer for you i reckon & the cops have been patrolling the freeway pretty hard since that last crash.

i reckon that industrial controller will integrate seamlessly into the modern interior of an xl-7.

[droverdave]

"Also read that shrouds can affect high speed cooling as it restricts the flow"

Source please.

[GeckoXL7]

droverdave wrote:

"Also read that shrouds can affect high speed cooling as it restricts the flow"

Source please.

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/coo ... stem-tech/

If you are experiencing high-speed cooling problems, a shroud might not be the best solution. The shroud can act as a restriction since the air must funnel between the engine-driven fan and the shroud. If you need a shroud to prevent low-speed overheating, you could create spring-loaded pressure-relief doors in the shroud, which would open as pressure increases inside the shroud at high speed.

Read more: http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/coo ... z3IikJzZPC
Follow us: @HotRodMagazine on Twitter | HotRodMag on Facebook

[atari4x4]

do the SQ's have the rubber flaps on either side of the radiator like the SV's do, i'm guessing yours wouldn't going by the state of the rest of the car?

[GeckoXL7]

I gave it curry all the way to work today with aircon on would of expected it to get hotter but it didnt. But Princess highway is where it usually struggles and will deff start to get hot.

Illl have to make a trip up to haundorf or maybe a beach trip down south this weekend.

[GeckoXL7]

Mine deff did not have any flaps on it just a 16" hole which isnt in the center. wouldnt be hard to put flaps in a aloy shroud as the suction of the fan when there on will keep the flaps shut, but when off and on the highway the flow through the radiator will push it open. Could make the 4 inch bottom bit one large flap lol.

[atari4x4]

the rubber sections close the gaps either side of the radiator & where the sheet metal for the headlight is etc, not over the the fan/shroud, with the small rad, so much air will be going past the radiator instead of through it, it's all clipped in & acts as a funnel for the radiator.

this is the thing, neither of my zooks temp gauges moved once up to temp on the freeway, thrashing in teh sand or crawling slow in low... with the trailer on.

this is what i'd be doing, put in the proper sized radiator, put the shroud, fan & clutch back in. make sure it's running right, buy some spal fans or even that set up that murcod fitted & once you know it's all good & you've built a decent electric fan set up swap back to the thermo fans, all what i'm reading at the moment is the lead up to a thread that's titled xl-7 headgasket replacement.

something something something pretty sure suzuki engineers knew more than the whole internet about keeping a h series cool.

[droverdave]

I can see what that hotrod guy is getting at, but i assume by "high speed" he is referring to 100% throttle at 300mph on a salt lake, not 110km/h traveling with a tent and a bbq in the back.

You are trying to fix a problem that doesn't need to exist.

[GeckoXL7]

No Rubber around the radiator or between the aircon core etc. the aircon core is much larger than the radiator. So you are sugesting to fill in the gaps around the radiator?

When putting in the new radiator i can use Rubber between the side mounts along bottom and between aircon core and radiator. make sure what ever goes through the front funnles through the radiator?

No issues with low speed and idles at 88 now.
The fan shroud would be too small on the wider radiator, fan also vibrates as corners of the blades have been bent slightly as it hit the shroud and radiator. The little clip on the Viscous hub that i gather temp sensitive clutch bit also fell off. So both are pretty much useless.

I think getting rid of the useless 7" HID's and putting on my 8" LED's that are a heck of alot more brighter (close up) would be better for air flow. Pretty much the whole front grill is covered by the HID's hasnt been a issue but that old fan was heck loud cruising on the highay esp towing up hills car hated going over 80 with a trailer on the back, im sure the XL-7 should of been able to tow quite happily up a hill (this is even with a empty trailer)

[murcod]

Try heading up The Grove Way (or McIntyre Rd) from Main North Rd (- sounds like that's relatively local to you if you're testing on Main North Rd, Salisbury?)

Do it on a hot day (ie. 42C plus) with the A/C flat out. Even this Thursday might be warm enough to get it struggling a bit.

My radiator is fully shrouded - the dual fan assy does have rubber flaps on it to let air flow through (but IMHO that is most likely superfluous.) Have a look at proper factory set ups - the radiator is fully shrouded so the fan sucks air through all of the radiator. Once you're up to speed airflow through the radiator won't be a problem either way.

I've been running my set up for a long time. I've used it at the Coorong and Robe on the beach and in the dunes, towed with it fully loaded up the freeway, driven through rough farm paddocks etc. Even in temps over 45C with the A/C on and going up hills it never struggles.

What brand fans are you using? (Some manufacturer's specs on airflow are suss at best. )

Oh, you mentioned the thermostat being aftermarket earlier on? I've had trouble with other vehicles using aftermarket thermostats, going back to OEM improved things a lot. You can get problems with aftermarket water pumps too.

[GeckoXL7]

Mcintyre rd is reasonobly close im in the western subburbs sis lives up that way i know the stretch your talking about the 80 section.

So your car dosent struggle at all towing up a hill? Mine slows right down to 80 refuses to go faster just no power, i gather the fan was flat out sucking everything it had.

The thermostat is a dayco looked almost idential to the oem one but the oem one did work well.

The fans are GPI, if it can rotate the A/C fan when there on at quite a high speed im sure its flowing plenty of air, i know about static pressure. You can also fill the air comming from the bonnet and under the car, so tons of air flow. I bought these ones as been sealed. Alot come out the same factory just branded differntly.

I really dont think it will be a issue any more after the oil change, the thermosat could of been sticking too which would explain hitting 107 then suddenly dropping to around 90 massive drop in such a short time.

[murcod]

GPI???

This place? http://stores.ebay.com.au/GPI-Racing-Ra ... 34.c0.m322

[GeckoXL7]

There the fans.

Found these real world specs on the fans just now, Different brand but identical. Not really that high flow. The GPI does feel like it pulls alot of air through but if they are only 850cfm thats a 1000 off what is needed both fans put to gether.
Pretty much i think there all from the same factory even the Calibre ones are identical but where in mid 100's for same size.

Size Voltage Power Ampere(A) RPM Thickness Speed/minute(ft/min) CFM
10" 12V 80W 5.5 2250 63mm 1600 850
12" 12V 80W 7.5 2000 63.5mm 1810 1400
14" 12V 80W 10.5 2100 74.5mm 1830 1900
16" 12V 160W 13.5 2050 76mm 1850 2500

Looking at the davis craig ones they have around the same flow and look kinda the same.

[murcod]

The cheaper fans often don't perform very well once there's a bit of restriction to the air flow- their CFM ratings drop right off.

Back when I was researching there was even a huge difference between SPAL and Davies Craig - which are sold as a top shelf fan (price wise). With some brands you often can't even find the specs to make meaningful comparisons.

[GeckoXL7]

So something like this then? Current draw is quite high, would be good in a 2 stage setup.

http://www.a1electric.com/Merchant2/mer ... e=30102052

[Chop]

I'll see if i can find a link to a performance magazine article put up on a forum. (its probably a couple of years old now) It tested fans, and found 90% of the fans specs were nowhere near the real world tests they did. And the biggest contributor to the failings was all the cheap chinese fans that have flooded the market, and that was the reasons for the testing.

[GeckoXL7]

Cool Chop thanks.

The Spal ones look good but even electric fan setup of a ford falcon could be made to fit, just need to screw to each side of radiator on the brackets.

eg

[Chop]

GeckoXL7 wrote:

Cool Chop thanks.

The Spal ones look good but even electric fan setup of a ford falcon could be made to fit, just need to screw to each side of radiator on the brackets.

eg

Right there, you said it! Falcon twin fan set up! Don't worry about cheap fans, your cheap so go to U-GANK-IT and grab one!

[droverdave]

If you convert those CFM values, to the amount of air that flows through the radiator from the car moving, 2900cfm is equivalent to about 20km/h. (assuming radiator is 500x500mm)