[tanshi]

Still better than the jeep strait 6. 160 kw and 220 kgs lol

[JrZook]

tanshi wrote:

Still better than the jeep strait 6. ~140 kw and 220 kgs lol

[henno]

I think you'll find the 122kw 304 is probably worse. That is 122 measly kilowatts from 240kg (dressed) V8 engine? Woeful.

Fuel economy is about the same though: somewhere between stupid and ridiculous.

[atari4x4]

tanshi wrote:

I have the h27 in my daily to measure off of so that should get me close.

hmm, cam grind, why didn't I think of that . looking around I can find pistons rods and other stuff for the h25. but nothing for the 2.7

any one know what sorta work I should really be doing to suit a mildish cam? head work? up the compression?

like any 4 stroke, get it to breath & feed it fuel.

i've picked up a complete 2nd SV620 manifold w/sensors etc & will be making sure it's all match ported including the gaskets. if you wanted to get carried away you could spend days/weeks knife edging & working the flow on the heads/intake & cleaning up all the casting marks, doweling the head/mani/gaskets for perfect alignment. i'll be opening up the holes in the cross over pipe at the front of the inlet mani as the h20a are tiny, the h25a are a fair bit bigger & i'm not sure if the h27a is bigger again but they ran the flappy valve on the later ones to control the length of the intake.

if you were in SA & wanted solid advice i'd got see tony at TK engines, the guy is a flow genius & has so much out there with his name on it smashing the competition. he build a hypo L24 datto motor for a friend back in the day & it was a beast of a thing, based on a L20. he has a line a mile long waiting for headjobs for the HQ racers, his comply somehow & just work better & have been proven to work with results & has the same results with the late model DOHC/4valve heads/engines.

there are a heap of his threads/posts on performance forum, will try dig a few out... it's a dying art & not cheap but even 10 minutes on the phone will have you blown away & probably with an empty wallet if you had money to burn. i have a heap of old pics from when the old boy & i build my mk1 cortina engine, dad literally spent months on the head & probably a month on the inlet manifold on it's own, it's just a matter of taking the meat out in the right spots & knowing those spots, hardest part it keeping it all symmetrical between cylinders.

get ready for RSI & ringing ears if you start.

[tanshi]

As I said a 10 percent gain would be heaps. I dont wanna spend weeks on an engine that I could kill the first time I lay it over

[JrZook]

ITB's would wake it up

[atari4x4]

JrZook wrote:

ITB's would wake it up

driven by a $XXXX dollar ecu + $XXXX tune?

i'm guessing it's going to be driven in all conditions & i'd prefer all the nice details found in a factory ECU, cold start & all that guff. plus them flash ITB's would want to have a reasonable airbox on them to keep them breathing clean & said airbox will most likely hide the wank factor of the ITB's making them pretty much null & void, but still cool as ice.

you'll be going in as deep as the chains anyway. pull the heads have a look at them, if you must... ninjamoses has some good pics in his green GV thread of some bare heads, you've seen a holden red motor? you'll know what square potato round hole looks like, the ports on my h27 look good enough to me not to worry about opening them up, but do wonder if they did change the casting/machining on the head when getting the extra CC's? i'll try & remember to compare the 2.0 to the 2.7.

i'd chase up DJ710 & try to get those cam specs, being a "rally" grind you know it won't be aimed a peak power. give the manifold a quick tidy up taking the casting dags n crap off, check the manifold alignment with the head & the gaskets, match port if required. you'll be hand fabbing an exhaust, so you could go either way, long tube 3 into 1's or a stumpy tri-y to bring the power down a bit in the rev range. looking at the specs between the 2.0 & the 2.7, the shift in both peak power & torque are in the right direction not taking into account there is a heap more of both. currently my junk isn't "slow" it just lacks the balls down low & is just all revs. (peak power is at redline) and that's why i reckon the j20a is the better of the 2.0 engines.

[vet 180]

Meh...its going to be much cheaper, more reliable and have a better powerband if you find a stock mootech supercharger and smash 6 psi into it......

[droverdave]

Atari have you ever had anything to do with an aftermarket tuneable ecu?

[tanshi]

I don't need 100kw gains, only 10 to 20 to get what I want out of it. Im not wanting to have an aftermarket ecu if I can help it. Id rather spend 5 grand on tyres or 5 grand on my diffs than 5 grand on building an engine that's only gonna break shit more

[atari4x4]

droverdave wrote:

Atari have you ever had anything to do with an aftermarket tuneable ecu?

I know enough about them that tanshi doesn't need one or ITB's, maybe a set of adjustable cam gears to dial in the cams though.

I'll be the first to admit it's been at least 10-15yrs since I've been exposed to one, microtec & haltec were 2 that had the back up & knowledge to tune with a decent dyno operator in SA and what mates have used & haltec's support shat all over microtec. It's a long drawn out process getting all the bugs out, he's going to have enough trouble tuning the rest of the car in, let alone having to worry about a aftermarket ECU. Personally I think this is one area you're better off spending money elsewhere unless going down the forced induction route.

[vet 180]

tanshi wrote:

I don't need 100kw gains, only 10 to 20 to get what I want out of it. Im not wanting to have an aftermarket ecu if I can help it. Id rather spend 5 grand on tyres or 5 grand on my diffs than 5 grand on building an engine that's only gonna break shit more

lets call it 13.5 kws as your goal. That's a nice round figure of 10%. Having played with NA stuff before I can tell you 10% is huge on an already well optimized NA engine. And NA tuning is a lot more expensive than forced fed.

eg.
Head work for 6cyl from someone that knows what they are doing will be around $3000-$4000 (my head work for a 4cyl from tony was $3500)
Higher compression pistons $1000
Cams $600-$800(at a guess)
Headers and exhaust $1000
and you will need an ecu at the end of all this to make it worth while so another $2500 there wired in and tuned.

It all adds up and adds up fast

In all honesty if you do not want to play with the ecu, forget cams or another engine work. Wack a set of headers on there and get the intake breathing as good as you can with minimal mods and call it a day. Anything where you are changing the rpm power is made (i.e. cams) will need a tune as the timing will not match the cam profile. Just do simple breathing mods and call it a day.

[tanshi]

we will see what happens. the cam profiles I have apparently will work with the stock ecu. shrugs.

realistically dropping 10kgs of extra weight out of the car will have the same effect.

i'll put effort into that first obviously

[vet 180]

If you have the cams already and have been informed the ecu will adapt to the profiles then run them there is no loss. Will be interesting to see how much difference they make. Do you know the specs vs stock out of interest? I am assuming they are not too big where they need valve springs etc.

I am sure with the current weight of the car and 140kws it will go rather well. As you said the more power the more things need to be strengthened.

[tanshi]

whats every ones opinions on whats a good price for an h27 motor. auto box, engine loom, ecu and every thing to make it work?

[Gwagensteve]

$1500? $2K?

[atari4x4]

retail or private sale?

i grabbed ninja's h27a for 1650 & that was just a motor, but had new chains & seals etc.

[tanshi]

retail. just sniffing around. a local wrecker has one including all I will need for 3k. still a lot of cash

[Gwagensteve]

Probably paid that for the wreck and is looking to recoup. I think that's fair retail, but it's not what we should be paying.

[tanshi]

I would have been happier with ~2k

[sideways]

Did you offer them $2k?

Surely there's 0 demand for H27s outside of the half a dozen people who want them for engine conversions.

[tanshi]

lol actually no. these guys have 6 wrecks in their yard and all bar one is gone.

[sideways]

Wow, they must be terrible engines then.

[pezz]

id run a F20C, but im fairly sure they are reverse spinners
183.88 kW @ 8,600rpm & 217.71 Nm @ 7,500 rpm

[SierraDan]

Scat V4

[Gwagensteve]

Motus. /thread.

[MrRocky]

pezz wrote:

id run a F20C, but im fairly sure they are reverse spinners
183.88 kW @ 8,600rpm & 217.71 Nm @ 7,500 rpm

Honda f20c works theres a guy done it already on bbs.zuwharrie.com

[Zook_Fan]

Gwagensteve wrote:

Motus. /thread.

I've been looking at these for a non four wheel drive project but at $10k for 160hp and 160 foot pound I don't really see how it's worth it. A $10k busa motor will put our near double that.

[Gwagensteve]

I assume not n/a though.

I'm surprised they're only $10k

[vet 180]

Gwagensteve wrote:

I assume not n/a though.

I'm surprised they're only $10k

Hell yes NA. 200hp stock and and just over 100lbft. It also responds well to mods.

The motus makes more torque, and earlier in the rpm 5000rpm (126ft) compared with 7600 (102ft), but the busa revs to 11k where the motos only does 8, so you expect less torque because of less revs. I think with the right gearing the busa would feel better. I would would also feel comfortable with the busa engine just cruising at 5k-6k as they are so smooth. The busa is much easier to get parts, much easier to tune and a better engine design imo.

If I was going to spend serious money on an engine it would be the 3.0 version of this any day of the week:

http://www.h1v8.com/page/page/1562069.htm

450hp from a 100kg engine!