[Papa B.]

Hey All.
First post on here. I've decided to look into purchasing a Small 4x4 vehicle and I've been thinking either the Suzuki Jimny or possibly even a SWB GV. I will be looking to eventually upgrade the vehicle to have larger tires and possibly a small lift. I was hoping for a couple before purchase tips (things to look out for, & the stuff to avoid) as well as information on issues in regards to automatic transmissions straining under the extra load of bigger tires and even possibly a later M15/16/18 upgrade.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Gwagensteve]

Purchase tips -

It shouldn't be hard to find a Jimny that has done no off road work. It's hard to hide - the underside of the diffs and chassis will tend to show any evidence quickly. I'm not sure where you are, but if you live somewhere where beach use is common, check under the carpet for evidence of sand or water ingress.

On the test drive, check for death wobble. This is far from impossible to fix, but it it's not present, it likely means the front end is in good condition.
If it's an electric transfer shift version, check everything switches properly and there's no warning lights etc.

As for the auto, There's nothing wrong with the auto per se, but it is small and at the limit of its torque handling capabilities with the M13. I would not purchase a second hand automatic jimny with any evidence it's run taller than stock tyres without gearing reduction and/or driven sand.

There are plenty of auto Jimny's out there with no problems, but when an Jimny auto fails, it's likely worth more than the cost of the car to replace. There are no third party parts and no upgrades. The key is to keep the auto cool and properly geared. Fit the largest cooler you can afford/fit and a temperature gauge on transmission cooler flow line TO the cooler. Keep temperatures below about 110˚C and the auto will give years of trouble free service.

auto heat is generated very quickly when the converter is slipping. The more slip - the more heat. Taller tyres without gearing correction tend to result in the torque converter spending more time unlocked, which increases heat. Left foot braking the auto off road adds heat quickly, as does large throttle openings in high range 4WD at low speed (sand)

A properly geared and driven automatic is far better off road than a manual, and the auto (and power steering) are the major highlights of the Jimny for me. Just keep it cool and happiness will ensue.

From what I know of the GV, I think there are two SWB variants, a 2.0 and a 1.6. I'd avoid the 1.6 litre car - the 2.0 litre car uses wider axles, larger brakes etc and is a fair step up from the 1.6. Both 1.6 and 2.0 GV's run the Aisin AW-4 automatic which is basically indestructible in such a light car.

I'm sure others will chime in with more model specific advice. I have lots of experience with both the Jimny automatic and the AW-4 automatic (swapped into Sierras) but others are more up to speed with the result of the car.

[Papa B.]

Thank you for the detailed post.

It's good to know that if I was to go the Jimny route I could still have an auto box. But it'd great to have an understanding of the potential problems with a auto. I'm in the Inner West suburbs of Melbourne, Been able to find a fair few pavement princess GV's but haven't had as much luck finding the right Jimny as manual seems to be the preferred gearbox. Might have to try stretch my budget and try purchase one new.

[Mike57]

I am not sure that the Jimny is available new in Victoria at the moment. They were discontinued due to lack of ESC. Are they back in the dealers here? I saw them for $20k new in dealers in SA over Christmas. Since you are in Melbourne you might come along to the February meeting of the Suzuki 4WD club and we can have a chat. Let me know if you intend coming and I will bring my Jimny rather than my normal car.

[Papa B.]

Thank you for the offer but as I work nightshifts I cannot make it to the VicClub meets.

In regards to the new Jimny, I'm not sure if they're technically new or something else, but I've found plenty of 2014 models on carsales and Alan Mance appears to still have some in the back of the yard whenever I've headed past there.

[Gwagensteve]

Papa B. wrote:

I could still have an auto box. But it'd great to have an understanding of the potential problems with a auto.

I thought my post was pretty clear about the potential problems with a Jimny auto. What other information were you looking for in relation to the auto?

I believe new Jimny's are now on sale in Victoria. Drove past Suzuki dealer the other day and there was one in the forecourt. (New shape)


Steve.

[Papa B.]

Gwagensteve wrote:

Papa B. wrote:

I could still have an auto box. But it'd great to have an understanding of the potential problems with a auto.

I thought my post was pretty clear about the potential problems with a Jimny auto. What other information were you looking for in relation to the auto?

Poorly written post on my behalf.
Your post was extremely clear and informative.

It's provided me with the information could still have an auto gearbox providing I take the necessary precautions to prevent damage (Such as cooling, and Temp gauges as you have outlined).

It's great to have an understanding of the of the potential causes of problems with the auto, so I know what to have a lookout for while purchasing.

[Gwagensteve]

Oh, ok, no problem.

If you're looking at a second hand auto jimny, check the trans fluid is bright red not brown, and that the auto shifts quickly and cleanly from D to R. A delay in the shift and/or brown fluid means its days are numbered and it's been cooked.

Steve.

[sideways]

The spec is N-D less than 1 second. N-R less than 1.4 sec.

Stall speed 2550-2850 rpm.

[Gwagensteve]

Wow, that's slow. methinks suzuki are giving themselves enough wear to get out of warranty there.

A word to the OP about stall speed. (not sure how much you know about autos)

The stall speed is the engine speed, with the car in gear and your foot HARD on the brake, that the revs no longer climb. In normal driving, the car will move a much lower revs than 2550. It's also why gearboxes, when "stalled up" get very hot quickly -

At 2550rpm the engine is probably producing something like 30Kw at full throttle. with the engine producing 30Kw and no motion at the wheels, that 30Kw is being converted directly into heat. That's a lot of heat to shed through a little cooler in the bottom of the radiator.

That said, stalling the car up (via left foot braking) is a very good way of providing delicate and precise control in technical off road terrain. That's partially the reason a temp gauge and cooler are very good ideas - so you know when to give it a rest.

Steve.

[vet 180]

Gwagensteve

How do you find the auto's go with an m15 and big trans cooler? Is it a case of they just cant handle the torque, or is it heat (and running cooked fluid) that kills them?

Generally in the past when it comes to small (torqueless) 4x4's I have preferred manual and bigger 4x4's I prefer auto.

[sideways]

FWIW I think 4 people on here have killed them? I've searched it a lot. There's certainly a fair few people running G16s in front of them. I think their weakness is a bit over played, certainly more people break VVT manuals (but then, there's probably a lot more manual Jimnys).

1 filled with water
1 behind an M18 with big tyres, no gearing, no cooler
Other 2 I can't remember.

Anyone know how different the VVT auto is? Is it just a ratio change or is there more to it?

In the past few months I've seen a few come up for sale (second hand, obviously) for less than $800. As with most major components, Suzuki wants spastic money for them new. There are aftermarket parts available for very reasonable prices. Search it up on aliexpress/alibaba, I've never looked any further than those.

They aren't a "OMG write off the car if it breaks" type thing like they were a few years ago.

[Gwagensteve]

Good feedback there Sideways. $800 is pretty reasonable assuming they are in good condition.

I also think the weakness is overplayed - my own experience is with the one in Greg's car with 35's. it was a take out from a wreck with 60 or 80K on it (can't remember) and it's been trouble free. He has a gauge though, and golly it runs hot, even with a 10"X10" cooler - (up to 50˚ hotter than an AW-4 in the same service) He's added a second 10"X10" cooler with thermo fan to try and keep it cool. He does have a spare auto, which he scored for about $650 a couple of years ago so yes, they can be found, but if it's a daily, trying to find an auto in a hurry is part of the problem.

Wasn't another one totalled when dropped off a workbench bending the input shaft

[alien]

All the VVT boxes i've seen out at suzistore lost their case hardening - i'd say there's a difference in production between models, maybe a different factory or a different coating etc? But i know they've had a fair few come through needing doing over the last 2 years.

[Papa B.]

Had a Test Drive in a 2009 GV 2.4L (SWB) was quite nice to drive on the road. The wife also liked the Bigger size of the GV than the smaller Jimny. So I'm now kinda in two minds about which model I would want to buy as it could be better suited as a daily and could use the cash difference between new Jimny and it to add extras such as lift, wheels and a Bullbar. Going to be looking at a Jimny (second hand) later in the week so I will have a better understanding of what it is I'll be looking for.

[Gwagensteve]

The SWB GV will make a much better road car than the Jimny, but I don't think there's much comparison offroad. Even with the added power of the 2.4 and traction control, I think I'd much rather drive a Jimny in the bush. It's really about where you put your priorities.

I'll also add that the Jimny is easy to repower, and has lots of aftermarket support. The GV's have suspension bush issues which prevent more than 45mm of lift, and the trade off with the lift is reduced overall wheel travel due to the stiffer spring rates. Whilst they will take a reasonably tall tyre, there's no support for gearing correction, and pirahna are the only source for a rear diff lock at ~2.5K. (apparently) The traction control cancels with brake application, so left foot braking the auto whilst it has a wheel in the air becomes counterproductive, however, the TC is quite loose and requires quite a lot of wheelspin to engagre. All up progress can be quite lurchy and scrabbly offroad.

On road I'd take the GV every time, but they do seem to hit the wall quickly if you try to develop them for offroad use.

Just my 2C.

Steve.

[vet 180]

Thanks for your posts gwagensteve and sideways. Certainly seems as it's just heat that kills them. If I got an auto it would run 2 trans coolers anyway. 1 big one at the front and another one with a fan.

Paul b the GV is much better on road. But jimny much better off-road. I think of it this way, if your happy to have a car you dont want to mod and want it nice on road, something the whole family can use the GV is your car. If you want to mod it and make it real capable off road the Jim is the car. The GV is surprising off-road but the Jim is a real 4x4 with solid axles front and rear and a decent aftermarket.

[Dr_Snapid]

Gwagensteve wrote:

Wasn't another one totalled when dropped off a workbench bending the input shaft

Yes.

I'm thinking of getting another jimny. I would happily go auto again.

[Gwagensteve]

Vet 180 - I don't think the NGV is in any way surprising off road. It has a transfer case, that's the best that can be said of it. The rest of the vehicle is not engineered for off road use in my opinion, which is a shame. The NGV looks to be slightly more heavily built than some of the opposition, but it has inadequate ground clearance, poorly located components, and poorly engineered drivetrain for off road use. With some tyre and skid plates they can be coaxed and skidded a fair way, but the same could be said for most vehicles.

I'd be interested to see where you find room to run two coolers on a Jimny. Many people struggle to find an effective place to mount one. Gregc's car, being a sierra, is different and doesn't run A/C, so there was room for a large cooler in front of (and tight against) the radiator. The second cooler has been mounted on the LH inner guard and heavily ducted to try and keep engine bay heat away from it. From what I've seen of Jimny engine bays, I'm not sure that's possible. Many A/C cooler installs in a Jimny look ineffective to me because they aren't tight against the radiator - the engine fan will simply draw air around it rather than through it (path of least resistance and all)

I've seen one mounted on top of the engine WRX intercooler style. That might be effective on road at speed but at a guess it would turn into an auto heater offroad.

[vet 180]

Gwagensteve wrote:

Vet 180 - I don't think the NGV is in any way surprising off road. It has a transfer case, that's the best that can be said of it. The rest of the vehicle is not engineered for off road use in my opinion, which is a shame. The NGV looks to be slightly more heavily built than some of the opposition, but it has inadequate ground clearance, poorly located components, and poorly engineered drivetrain for off road use. With some tyre and skid plates they can be coaxed and skidded a fair way, but the same could be said for most vehicles.

I'd be interested to see where you find room to run two coolers on a Jimny. Many people struggle to find an effective place to mount one. Gregc's car, being a sierra, is different and doesn't run A/C, so there was room for a large cooler in front of (and tight against) the radiator. The second cooler has been mounted on the LH inner guard and heavily ducted to try and keep engine bay heat away from it. From what I've seen of Jimny engine bays, I'm not sure that's possible. Many A/C cooler installs in a Jimny look ineffective to me because they aren't tight against the radiator - the engine fan will simply draw air around it rather than through it (path of least resistance and all)

I've seen one mounted on top of the engine WRX intercooler style. That might be effective on road at speed but at a guess it would turn into an auto heater offroad.

Ok fair call.

I agree it is not if you compare with other cars with a low range, or old GV or jimny etc. But if you compare to it's competition of the same year it is. E.g. Kia sportage, xtrail etc