Probably not. And no different to Suzuki giving the Jimny a "sierra" badge either. Poor marketing, but marketing none the less. Sooner or later they'll need to innovate again though, because the names they're leveraging their brand on are 20+ years old.
*Ahem* jeep don't seem to have any trouble with calling a rebodied Fiat 500L a "renegade", why would Suzuki. Remember too that in quite a few countries Sierras and Vitaras could be had in 2WD.
Sadly, "heritage" is only a marketing term. Car manufacturers are pretty pragmatic, it's the marketing department that get all misty eyed.
Yes, the prices on the current GV's are sky high for what you get. The only person whom I'd think would consider one is a buyer who actually wants to go off road on a regular basis - otherwise a FWD based soft roader is a much better option. If they could at least upgrade the transmissions to 6 spd manuals and 6 spd autos (please NO more CVT's!), that would be a step in the right direction.
A lot of the new Suzuki models are also very under powered.
One thing I will say, I've been looking around at a future replacement for my 2004 XL-7 Limited and the options (for similar specs) are limited and expensive. It's amazing how many 7 seater "SUV's" out there don't have aircon vents for the third row seat (let alone a separate A/C unit like the XL-7's.) Some don't even have vents for the middle row!!! Nor do most have a sliding centre seat row (like the XL-7) for easy rear seat access.
The Hyundai Santa Fe and Kia Sorrento seem like the best options.
Yes, the prices on the current GV's are sky high for what you get. The only person whom I'd think would consider one is a buyer who actually wants to go off road on a regular basis - otherwise a FWD based soft roader is a much better option. If they could at least upgrade the transmissions to 6 spd manuals and 6 spd autos (please NO more CVT's!), that would be a step in the right direction.
A lot of the new Suzuki models are also very under powered.
One thing I will say, I've been looking around at a future replacement for my 2004 XL-7 Limited and the options (for similar specs) are limited and expensive. It's amazing how many 7 seater "SUV's" out there don't have aircon vents for the third row seat (let alone a separate A/C unit like the XL-7's.) Some don't even have vents for the middle row!!! Nor do most have a sliding centre seat row (like the XL-7) for easy rear seat access.
The Hyundai Santa Fe and Kia Sorrento seem like the best options.
Have a look at the R52 Pathy, Has trip zone AC standard and has one of the biggest 3rd row seats on the market.
Very versatile vehicle and pretty good on fuel. Nissan make the best CVT's around. CVT and the 3.5 VQ motor work very well together
The Pathfinder gets horrible reviews and it's larger than what I need. I wouldn't touch a CVT either. Nissan CVT's are all made by Jatco (AFAIK), who also make the terrible CVT in the Kizashi. There have been quite a few failures in both Kizashi's and Nissan models. I'd actually risk buying a VW style DSG box before considering a CVT.
I could actually make do with a conventional five seat wagon with A/C outlets in the rear (that's how the XL-7 is set up, with the rear seat row removed.) The things you do for your dog....
The other thing with all these new SUV models is they're quite often rounding off the rear roof (reducing luggage space) and effectively they're more like jacked up hatch backs. Useless for people who actually want the extra load space.
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:24 pm Posts: 1574
Vehicle: 91 Tin Top
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:53 am
After seeing the photos of our service tech's R51 pathfinder's front alloy diff laying in 3 pieces on the ground I wouldn't touch them.
It was the 2nd time he'd ever locked the hubs in (the first time was to test that 4wd worked), he lost traction on a very small hill, put in in reverse, then BANG! 3 nice even pieces laying on the ground under the car. His was one of the last R51s sold, it had only done about 25-30k with no offroad work, at the moment Nissan won't cover it under warranty, they want to make him pay for the new diff.
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:24 pm Posts: 1574
Vehicle: 91 Tin Top
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:47 am
Apparently the fault is very common in the R51s.
I just spoke with him this morning to see how he went. They refused to replace under warranty, saying it went 'off road' and voided the warranty.
After much back and forth, they agreed to fit a second hand diff. Apparently it vibrated like crazy. So he drove from the new car section around to the used cars and traded it on a near new Poootroll, with extended warranty, he's covered until 2018.....
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:30 pm Posts: 182 Location: Penrith, NSW
Vehicle: 1993 Sierra 1.6 efi Vit motor,
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:54 am
pete_79 wrote:
Apparently the fault is very common in the R51s. They refused to replace under warranty, saying it went 'off road' and voided the warranty.
I wonder if all manufacturers have this attitude towards warranty. I once had the same problem with Nissan refusing warranty because of off road driving.
I bet they wouldn't warrant a claim for a broken front diff that failed while on road anyway, claiming that it should only be engaged on low-traction offroad surfaces. So basically, you're on your own when it comes to a front diff. Well played, Nissan.
The Pathfinder gets horrible reviews and it's larger than what I need. I wouldn't touch a CVT either. Nissan CVT's are all made by Jatco (AFAIK), who also make the terrible CVT in the Kizashi. There have been quite a few failures in both Kizashi's and Nissan models. I'd actually risk buying a VW style DSG box before considering a CVT.
I could actually make do with a conventional five seat wagon with A/C outlets in the rear (that's how the XL-7 is set up, with the rear seat row removed.) The things you do for your dog....
The other thing with all these new SUV models is they're quite often rounding off the rear roof (reducing luggage space) and effectively they're more like jacked up hatch backs. Useless for people who actually want the extra load space.
Funny you say that, there hasn't been horrible reviews on the R52. Most review praise it with a few minor issues (like every other car tested)
The CVT is nothing like the CVT in the Kizashi. Don't know how you come up with that one.
The early 13 built CVT's in the Pathy had a couple go with a shudder issue, but this has been fixed and not many are getting replaced (you read the net too much)
CVT transmissions are not as troublesome as you may think. DSG are more prone to troubles than CVT.
At my work they have never had a Suzuki CVT have an issue. Some Kizashis and Sport swifts are getting some klms on them now. Traded a few Kizashis with over 150000klms and still on original CVT and still drive great.
Up too you what you buy, but drive a car before you comment rather than go off trolls on the net...
Funny you say that, there hasn't been horrible reviews on the R52. Most review praise it with a few minor issues (like every other car tested)
Quote:
Nissan Pathfinder ST-L AWD
The new Pathfinder looks big, and is big. Built in the United States, it brings an expectation of a softer-than-usual suspension tune – yep, check. And comfy seats - tick that box too.
The 3.5-litre V6 petrol engine is used in many Nissan products and is approaching long-service leave now.
Driving all four wheels through a constantly variable transmission (CVT) auto, the V6 is lacking some refinement expected in modern SUVs. The CVT gives the choice of L (for low) and D (for drive), with a Sport button on the lever which increases the revs, the engine noise and response.
Though indolent off the mark and tending to get a little raucous when pressed, and doughy and imprecise on twisty roads, the Pathfinder is a relaxing place to be on the freeway.....the Pathfinder has a strangely dated feel and an engine with wrinkles and age spots.
The CVT is nothing like the CVT in the Kizashi. Don't know how you come up with that one.
Quote:
Audi, Honda, Hyundai, Subaru, and Toyota all make their own CVTs. Nissan owns a controlling interest in JATCO, the firm that supplies 49 percent of the world’s gear-free transmissions to Chrysler, GM, Mitsubishi, and Suzuki. In addition, nearly half of Nissan’s current U.S. models offer a JATCO-supplied CVT.
The early 13 built CVT's in the Pathy had a couple go with a shudder issue, but this has been fixed and not many are getting replaced (you read the net too much)
CVT transmissions are not as troublesome as you may think. DSG are more prone to troubles than CVT.
At my work they have never had a Suzuki CVT have an issue. Some Kizashis and Sport swifts are getting some klms on them now. Traded a few Kizashis with over 150000klms and still on original CVT and still drive great.
Up too you what you buy, but drive a car before you comment rather than go off trolls on the net...
My next vehicle will preferably have a proper "old fashioned" 6 speed auto; but a DSG type trans would be my second choice. A CVT would never be on my shopping list. If it was just for me to drive it would be a manual!
PS: I also happen to own a Kizashi- thankfully a manual. I know too well of quite a few people (mainly in the North American market) who have had Kizashi CVT's fail. Browse Google for "Kizashi Club forum" if you don't believe me. I'm talking total failure too- vehicles towed away and new CVT's being fitted. A couple of people have even had more than one CVT fail. There are plenty of gripes about them making odd noises and misbehaving, with Suzuki North America dismissing the problems until total failure occurs.
I'm pretty sure consumer law would provision for a vehicle equipped with 4wd and marketed as being able to go offroad (ie: a TV Commercial of it offroad) having a warranty in the advertised situation. It would come under misrepresenting the product otherwise... or at the very least failing to meet expectations for its advertised purpose.
....Businesses that sell goods guarantee that those goods:
- are of acceptable quality - the goods must be safe, lasting, have no faults, look acceptable and do all the things someone would normally expect them to do - are fit for any purpose that the consumer made known to the business before buying (either expressly or by implication), or the purpose for which the business said it would be fit for - have been accurately described - match any sample or demonstration model....
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:24 pm Posts: 1574
Vehicle: 91 Tin Top
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:03 pm
alien wrote:
I'm pretty sure consumer law would provision for a vehicle equipped with 4wd and marketed as being able to go offroad (ie: a TV Commercial of it offroad) having a warranty in the advertised situation. It would come under misrepresenting the product otherwise... or at the very least failing to meet expectations for its advertised purpose.
What do you mean the warranty is void on my new Vitara.....????? I just towed my mate on his knee board in the ocean exactly the way to showed me to do it in the ad......
Funny you say that, there hasn't been horrible reviews on the R52. Most review praise it with a few minor issues (like every other car tested)
Quote:
Nissan Pathfinder ST-L AWD
The new Pathfinder looks big, and is big. Built in the United States, it brings an expectation of a softer-than-usual suspension tune – yep, check. And comfy seats - tick that box too.
The 3.5-litre V6 petrol engine is used in many Nissan products and is approaching long-service leave now.
Driving all four wheels through a constantly variable transmission (CVT) auto, the V6 is lacking some refinement expected in modern SUVs. The CVT gives the choice of L (for low) and D (for drive), with a Sport button on the lever which increases the revs, the engine noise and response.
Though indolent off the mark and tending to get a little raucous when pressed, and doughy and imprecise on twisty roads, the Pathfinder is a relaxing place to be on the freeway.....the Pathfinder has a strangely dated feel and an engine with wrinkles and age spots.
The CVT is nothing like the CVT in the Kizashi. Don't know how you come up with that one.
Quote:
Audi, Honda, Hyundai, Subaru, and Toyota all make their own CVTs. Nissan owns a controlling interest in JATCO, the firm that supplies 49 percent of the world’s gear-free transmissions to Chrysler, GM, Mitsubishi, and Suzuki. In addition, nearly half of Nissan’s current U.S. models offer a JATCO-supplied CVT.
The early 13 built CVT's in the Pathy had a couple go with a shudder issue, but this has been fixed and not many are getting replaced (you read the net too much)
CVT transmissions are not as troublesome as you may think. DSG are more prone to troubles than CVT.
At my work they have never had a Suzuki CVT have an issue. Some Kizashis and Sport swifts are getting some klms on them now. Traded a few Kizashis with over 150000klms and still on original CVT and still drive great.
Up too you what you buy, but drive a car before you comment rather than go off trolls on the net...
My next vehicle will preferably have a proper "old fashioned" 6 speed auto; but a DSG type trans would be my second choice. A CVT would never be on my shopping list. If it was just for me to drive it would be a manual!
PS: I also happen to own a Kizashi- thankfully a manual. I know too well of quite a few people (mainly in the North American market) who have had Kizashi CVT's fail. Browse Google for "Kizashi Club forum" if you don't believe me. I'm talking total failure too- vehicles towed away and new CVT's being fitted. A couple of people have even had more than one CVT fail. There are plenty of gripes about them making odd noises and misbehaving, with Suzuki North America dismissing the problems until total failure occurs.
I know that they are made by the same people, BUT if you read what I said, driving a Kizashi and a Pathy CVT is a very different CVT. Even take a T31 and T32 Xtrail. Same engine, different CVT (both made by the same company) are very different. Same as a Dualis and Qashqai.
Again if you want to go off reviews that is your head in the sand thoughts. Drive one and you will see what I mean.
Also I never said CVT's don't have issues, tell me what mechanical thing is %100 fault free. The amount of CVT's sold in the world compared to ones that die is very small. A "simple" traditional auto, are prone to just as many issues as a CVT or DSG for that matter.
I am quoting from actual facts, not crap you read on the net...
Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 11:50 am Posts: 1246
Vehicle: Vitara 1994
Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:22 pm
cvt's would be awesome offroad. They are pretty reliable now in most nissan products. I still would prefer a normal auto though
It's really a shame you guys dont get the xterra in Aus. They only make them in LHD unfortunately . Much more compact and offroad focused than a pathfinder a little bigger than a GV, but with solid rear axle, 32 inch tires, rear difflock, good flex, bullet proof torquey vq40de engine, traditional 5 speed auto, great cargo space due to rear seats that fold forward, good onroad manners etc.
Also I have read the new vitara will have a 6 speed?
Quote:
Suzuki has CONFIRMED the Vitara will be powered by the same 118bhp 1.6-litre petrol and 1.6-litre diesel engines as the SX4 S-Cross; the petrol produces 115lb ft, the diesel 236lb ft. 0-62mph times and top speeds are yet to be announced.
As for efficiency, Suzuki is saying the two-wheel drive petrol should achieve 123g/km with the standard five-speed MANUAL gearbox and 127g/km with the six-speed automatic. This rises with Allgrip four-wheel drive to 134g/km and 138g/km, respective. Very impressive if it comes to fruition.
The diesel, meanwhile, is targeting 106g/km as a two-wheel drive six-speed MANUAL and 111g/km as a four-wheel drive six-speed auto. The Allgrip four-wheel drive is an evolution of that fitted to the S-Cross, and features Auto, Sport, Snow and Lock driving modes.
I don't believe CVT or DSG is suitable for off road use. Not that it matters, Suzuki aren't interested in the off road market, but nonetheless, it's evidence of the direction they are heading.
My experience with CVT is limited to some (BMW) minis and Nissan xtrails, but it makes me want to investigate whether I could walk to my destination. We have a couple of current Renault Kangoo vans at work, can't work out if they are CVT or conventional autos, but they are the worst gearbox/engine match of any car I have ever driven. I've even tried to row them through the gears manually, but Renault reversed the direction of the shifter so even that is counterintuitive.
The comments made the Suzuki Australia guy in that article are very telling. "We can fit terrible gearboxes- it doesn't matter so long as the car takes the driver to their destination. They'll get used to how terrible they are" what a sad state of affairs. Underestimate your customer at your peril.
The comments made the Suzuki Australia guy in that article are very telling. "We can fit terrible gearboxes- it doesn't matter so long as the car takes the driver to their destination. They'll get used to how terrible they are" what a sad state of affairs. Underestimate your customer at your peril.
Exactly. There are a number of Kizashi owners I know who wish they'd a proper 6 spd auto instead of their CVT. The ironic part is most manufacturers seem to set up their CVT's with fixed ratios - which defeats the purpose of the CVT in the first place!
I remember a friend had a Jap import Suzuki Cultus with a CVT (way back around the mid 1990's.) That was a proper CVT set up- it sounded like he was driving a manual and had no idea how to use the clutch!
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