[got_bar_work]

Cvt would be great if it can handle the abuse and be programed right. Look at all the sxs buggies. They are all cvts. Steve is right though they all run set ratios which is just stupid .

[alien]

My mum used to have a 95 Nissan Micra which was CVT and no set ratios, just endless revving... was pretty fun to drive. The little 1.3 used to hit about 160km/hr by the end of the freeway onramp! lol

[Gwagensteve]

Lol- the SXS that blew it's transmission apart in front of me at the 40km mark of Finke disagrees with you

[SierraDan]

CVT belongs on 50cc bikes.

[atari4x4]

Some douchenozzle up the street for me has bought some DSG audi... fucking hammers it from cold day in day out, wonder how long it's going to last. Such a distinct sound.

[murcod]

SierraDan wrote:

CVT belongs on 50cc bikes.

I think that's the problem. From memory the CVT in the Kizashi is only rated at a maximum of 20Nm more than the Kizashi engine outputs - so not much leeway. People report problems with them going into a "self protection" mode from over heating- but they've already got a engine radiator cooler plus an external air cooler from the factory. They seem fine in smaller engined vehicles with low torque outputs. I've also read some good things about Toyota's CVTs, it seems they've done a good job with their programming side of things.

[stuartcarr2002]

Gwagensteve wrote:

I don't believe CVT or DSG is suitable for off road use. Not that it matters, Suzuki aren't interested in the off road market, but nonetheless, it's evidence of the direction they are heading.

My experience with CVT is limited to some (BMW) minis and Nissan xtrails, but it makes me want to investigate whether I could walk to my destination. We have a couple of current Renault Kangoo vans at work, can't work out if they are CVT or conventional autos, but they are the worst gearbox/engine match of any car I have ever driven. I've even tried to row them through the gears manually, but Renault reversed the direction of the shifter so even that is counterintuitive.

The comments made the Suzuki Australia guy in that article are very telling. "We can fit terrible gearboxes- it doesn't matter so long as the car takes the driver to their destination. They'll get used to how terrible they are" what a sad state of affairs. Underestimate your customer at your peril.

No Kangoo has ever had a CVT fitted. They are a normal 4 speed auto.

It is only the traffic and master that have a automated manual. Which are crap i might add

[Gwagensteve]

Hmm, interesting. It's then, officially, the most terrible fitment/tuning of an automatic gearbox ever. Words can't describe how terribly they drive. It's a shame, they're otherwise super useful.

Steve.

[pete_79]

Gwagensteve wrote:

Hmm, interesting. It's then, officially, the most terrible fitment/tuning of an automatic gearbox ever. Words can't describe how terribly they drive. It's a shame, they're otherwise super useful.

Steve.

I'll take you up on that Steve, you obviously haven't been in the VE commo with a 6 speed box on the 3L engine. THE worst combo ever!!!!!

Never, ever, ever buy a 3L commodore with a 6 speed auto, NEVER EVER!!!!!

[Gwagensteve]

I'm pretty sure I have driven a 3L VE with a 6 speed, as a hire car some years ago. I don't remember it being very good, but it's a MILE better than these Kantgo's. IMHO they're dangerous - every time I pull away (like out of an intersection into traffic) you're not sure which forward gear it's going to try to pull away in. Often, it seems to settle for 3rd, leaving it cccccrrrrraaaaawwwwwlllllliiiiiiing into the traffic flow. If you force a kick down, it will pull 1st, wheeze and lurch and then mostly change straight back into third or something. You have to drive it completely floored constantly to get the auto to behave like, well, an auto.

I quite like Renaults - I was very keen on the Renaultsport Clio we bought in 2002, and otherwise I quite like the Kangoo.

I wonder if they're making conventional autos rubbish now so nobody notices how bad CVT is? Kind of like how incandescent lightbulbs now last a fraction of the time they used to.

[pete_79]

Gwagensteve wrote:

IMHO they're dangerous - every time I pull away (like out of an intersection into traffic) you're not sure which forward gear it's going to try to pull away in. Often, it seems to settle for 3rd, leaving it cccccrrrrraaaaawwwwwlllllliiiiiiing into the traffic flow. If you force a kick down, it will pull 1st, wheeze and lurch and then mostly change straight back into third or something. You have to drive it completely floored constantly to get the auto to behave like, well, an auto.

Just perfectly described driving my POS commodore....
To merge in city traffic I wait for the back of the car I'm want to merge behind to be at my side mirror, then floor it, let it go down 1 gear, wait for it to realise that's not enough and jump another 2 before it moves. By then the car has passed and I can slip in behind them.

In any stop start traffic I flick it over to manual mode and make it stay in 1st or 2nd. Even in sports mode it thinks 4th or 5th gear is good for sub 20km/h crawling.....


Maybe you're right and manufacturers are tuning auto boxes so badly to get the market wanting CVT or simular style transmissions.
These evil corporations and their conspiracies...

[alien]

Those boxes are likely tuned that way to get the fuel figures they advertise to meet emissions standards =)

[murcod]

Gwagensteve wrote:

I'm pretty sure I have driven a 3L VE with a 6 speed, as a hire car some years ago. I don't remember it being very good, but it's a MILE better than these Kantgo's. IMHO they're dangerous - every time I pull away (like out of an intersection into traffic) you're not sure which forward gear it's going to try to pull away in. Often, it seems to settle for 3rd, leaving it cccccrrrrraaaaawwwwwlllllliiiiiiing into the traffic flow. If you force a kick down, it will pull 1st, wheeze and lurch and then mostly change straight back into third or something. You have to drive it completely floored constantly to get the auto to behave like, well, an auto.

I quite like Renaults - I was very keen on the Renaultsport Clio we bought in 2002, and otherwise I quite like the Kangoo.

I wonder if they're making conventional autos rubbish now so nobody notices how bad CVT is? Kind of like how incandescent lightbulbs now last a fraction of the time they used to.

I think the Kangoo you've been driving is broken! A relative owned one and I drove it a couple of times - it never behaved like you've described. It was the 1.6l (?) petrol with auto trans.

[pete_79]

alien wrote:

Those boxes are likely tuned that way to get the fuel figures they advertise to meet emissions standards =)

Hahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!
The 3L VE commodore was advertised with the tag line "drive from Sydney to Melbourne on a single tank".

The auto drives like a pig, exactly as Steve described above, but I've never had good fuel economy.
Not even close to the advertised fuel figures, from the first tank that got about 680km out of it (from Sydney to Canberra and back with cruise control on the whole way) and it has never improved.

Apparently they advertised my car as 800km from a single tank...

City driving;
390km from 57L = Fail.


Highway driving (single occupant with cruise control on) ;
476km from 58L = Fail.


565km from 63L = Fail





Never buy a 3L Auto commodore.

[murcod]

That city figure is worse than my 2004 XL-7 (with 5 spd auto) - the official figure for it is 16.1l/100km "urban cycle". When I was tracking the fuel usage it was just under 14l/100km in the suburbs (390km for 57l is 14.6l/100km.)

I think they set new vehicles up to get glowing figures on the Aussie fuel economy tests. So the autos try to lug ridiculously high gears and won't kick down unless you really floor it. The 2006 Mazda 6 we had was like that.

[DarkHorse]

Gwagensteve wrote:

...We have a couple of current Renault Kangoo vans at work, can't work out if they are CVT or conventional autos, but they are the worst gearbox/engine match of any car I have ever driven. I've even tried to row them through the gears manually, but Renault reversed the direction of the shifter so even that is counterintuitive...

I've had the misfortune to be subjected to a Renault Transport van for work, and it is without doubt the most reprehensible spazmatic transmission I have ever encountered. I am anti-auto at the best of times, but this thing was an absolute pig - doing 5km/h the fucker would shift up half way up a carpark ramp and then stall out. Throwing it into 'manual' it would still shift automatically whether you told it to or not, so coasting to a red light it would kick down the second before you did, going from 3rd to 1st at 25km/h and planting your forehead into the windscreen.

Automatic transmissions of any sort can go and f*ck themselves.

[Gwagensteve]

There's good and bad in every transmission type. The 4L80e in dad's 6.5 diesel hummer was awesome. The dual clutch thingy in the Benz C63 AMG I spent a week in last year was otherworldly awesome- creamy and imperceptible at light throttle and crazy aggressive in sport+ mode.

Single clutch automated manuals are obviously the hardest to get to work well across all driving conditions and are particularly flaky in automatic mode from what I experienced of the E46 M3.