[nharv88]

I've been snooping around here for a while, thought it might be time to post something up. I dont own a sierra yet but ive still been around them a fair bit (few mates have had em). over the last few years several ideas have been thrown my way, most of which was high HP. but im over fast cars but love sierras and have been thinking about an offroader for a while.

I want the following things out of the car:
Reliability
low end torque
throttle response

ENGINE
G16B EFI out of a vitara
Rebuilt with ARP studs, good bearings etc
Block cap girdle
Microtec

BUDGET
SOHC
Standard CR (E10/95Octane)
250-300cc injectors
Log manifold
CT9

THE BUILD I WANT
DOHC
10:1 CR (E85)
400cc injectors
Tuned length manifold/good flowing log manifold
GT1548
*Plus larger dual stage turbo (Maybe a ballbearing 25/28 if i decide im crazy)
34mm ITB Setup (perfect match on DOHC intake ports, promote best gas velocity for good response)

Not sure whether to go for the DOHC head for the ability to finer tune cam timing to promote quicker spool and tourqueband adjustment
or stay SOHC for the bigger valves and lose the adjustability
Either way a cam/s would probably work wonders in either head

THE REST
A few things from the BenT Catalogue
Transfer gears
Ive read that 6.5 is good but this will also be a daily driver so i dont wanna be doin over 3000rpm at 100kmh
full cage transfer mount
15x8-10.5" sunraysia rims
29" or 30" tyres
2" Body lift
Fender flares (Depending on width of tyres)
Suspension (Possible 2" lift, has anyone got pics of sierra on 29-31" with 2"body 2"suspension lifts??? :p)
Snorkel
Long range fuel tank
Roofracks
Bullbar
Spotties
Rear facing work light

Can a g16b be put into the last series sierra -98?
id love a coily. The interiors are so much nicer

[mnemonix]

10:1 CR will be very adventurous. If you want to run E85, you need to run a decent amount of boost to take advantage of the benefit of retaining sufficient timing. This much boost plus a high static CR can be troublesome in an otherwise frail engine.

400cc injectors are marginal. I run Injector Dynamics 1000cc injectors in my g16b-twin cam and they're a perfect match. Idles at 800rpm and has enough flow capability for e85 at over 300hp, which is reportedly the limit of the block for reliability.

Definitely go with a BB turbo or better. If you have budget to spare, check out the Borg Warner EFR 6258 turbo and consider whether it suits your needs. I think it would be an ideal choice. Or perhaps an IHI VF38.

Don't bother with the DOHC head, it's more trouble than it's worth.

A G16b can definitely "Fit"a coil sierra, talk to your local automotive engineer about legalities though.
Although a coily interior is nicer and as a road car they drive nicer, offroad everything is inferior, harder to modify and weaker.

-Marko.

[nharv88]

I was thinkin 10:1 might be a bit crazy. Only want 100 to maybe 150hp atw. E85 just a bit of a dream atm. The servo up the road sells it but dont really know of any others, hence the long range tank

I only really know garret turbos so ill check the ones out u suggested. The gt1548 should see boost before 2000rpm and flow to redline (6000rpm) not that itll be built to rev too high. Do u think ITBs would be of any benefit down low? Or just retain stock intake. (Thinking ITBs are a bit overkill :p)

[Gwagensteve]

OK, I'm going to say it.

(and massive ups to Mnemonix, who does have experience in this realm - this is in no way a dig at what he's done or his advice)

You don't need any of that stuff to have fun in a sierra. I you want a fast street car with loads of money in the motor don't build a Sierra. The ride and handle terribly, so putting 150hp in one is dangerous and pointless.

It won't be reliable. Sorry, it just won't. either because the engine will break (10.0Cr +boost - wow, thats going to take some crazy good tuning to prevent melting) or because your super motor will destroy every single piece of driveline behind it. Really, it will.

Low end torque and throttle response is what a stock G16B was designed for. your planned mods are unlikely to improve either. and will likely result in a quite difficult to drive car offroad. No, actually, a VERY VERY difficult car to drive offroad. In fact you don't actually want razor sharp throttle response offroad. As an example, my (current model) Defender has two throttle maps - one is "sharp" for road use, and one is "soft" which engages when the car is in low range. This is to prevent surging/bunny hops/bouncing in low range.

Don't buy a coil sierra if you intend to build that motor or take the car offroad. The poor aftermarket support for the suspension and driveline don't make the pretty dash worthwhile. Buy Coil trims and put them in a leaf sierra. If you decide to stick with the coil platform and want to run a powerful motor, expect to literally throw away every suspension and differential part, and replace them with custom components.

My car weighs heaps, runs 35" tyres and has plenty of poke offroad with a stock G16B with 265,000km on it.
Sure, inroad it could do with more torque but its no big deal - it doesn't have the brakes or handling to deal with much performance.

You'll need to reassess/recalculate your gearing. A stock sierra spins 3550rpm@100km/h. With stock gearing and 30" tyres, you'l'l just reach 3050rpm. but the gearing offroad will be terrible. if you put 6.5 transfer gears in, you'll be revving slightly higher than stock - approx 3600rpm @ 100km/h, but offroad the car will be awesome.

I sense you are coming from road cars where power is important. This isn't the case with an offroad car. Gearing and tyre size are important, as are lockers. Engine is important so long as it runs and has EFI so it's reliable on angles. My car ran a 45Kw, 85Nm 660cc turbo three cylinder for years, even with 35" tyres. It was great offroad. Easy to drive, heaps of fun. I have the G16 mostly because it let me run an AW-4 automatic easily.

[russgt]

Great post Steve. Totally agree about everything! I hate throttle response in lowrange. Bounce, bounce etc.

Also 10:1 comp ratio and boost! Wow. Will only want about 3-5 psi if you do that.

[nharv88]

Ive been in imports for close to 10 years and its time to slow down and enjoy some mud and fishing. If a g16b is all i need then so be it. Love the long post that has cleared quite a few things up for me. Sitting at 3500 just sounds high to me (everything ive own has sat at 3000 thats why i said it.) Is there any point in building a g16b high CR or am i goin off track again? Lol

[Gwagensteve]

Stock motor. Spend money on things that add usefulness and capability, not on making your motor a hand grenade.

[monley]

Gwagensteve wrote:

Stock motor. Spend money on things that add usefulness and capability, not on making your motor a hand grenade.

X a million

[mnemonix]

As above, if it's your first foray into 4wding and your intentions are mud and fishing (beach), a stock g16 would be my choice.
Even a vitara 4door g16b auto as it sounds like your intentions aren't overly adventurous.

Despite all the efforts I've gone to with major mods over the few sierras I've owned, the most enjoyable zook I've ever built was essentially a bog stock '91 model sierra with 235/75 tyres, 1 litre transfer case and a g16b auto into a sierra 5speed. Way more capable than most would expect from a very low budget build and a rediculous amount of fun and capability.

[Don Burtron]

10.5:1 compression will be good for no more than 4 psi boost

go 8:1 and you can run 7-9 depending on your cams and other good internal parts

from my experience with building a 900hp r33 would be leave it NA and put 10.5:1 pistons with a good cam bearings etc with a mild ported head rebuild and get it dyno tuned to make more NM than HP/KW.
the setup you have mentioned will be outrageous like steve mentioned.

i had a 97 VS commodore that made 247KW at the rears and it was a V6 with a V8 cold air intake, full exhaust and a dyno tune..
thats the path i would be looking into if i was you.

just my opinion

[mnemonix]

Your opinion best be expressed elsewhere as it is mostly inaccurate for this discussion.
10.5:1 is good for double the boost you suggest.
8:1 is good for 30+ psi on the E85 he has planned and the cams and internals aren't worthy of consideration at the boost level you suggest.

Your Nissan and Holden experience are noteworthy whilst discussing those particular makes, but are mostly irrelevant when it comes to building a G series Suzuki engine.

[jonno_racing]

Don Burtron wrote:

i had a 97 VS commodore that made 247KW at the rears and it was a V6 with a V8 cold air intake, full exhaust and a dyno tune..

care to shed some light on this???? the 3.8 makes 140kw at the fly stock so 110 at the wheels at a guess??
how did you make well over 100% improvement? and do you have the dyno sheet and vid to prove it?

as for the zook.
go a stock 1.6 simple.
i picked one up from qld recently, it was a g16b in a sj80 for dirt cheap. its now all legal etc.
on 27inch rubber it was as quick as my vx wagon off the lights! there not that slow. till you add big rubber

[Marko_SJ]

jonno_racing wrote:

as for the zook.
go a stock 1.6 simple.
i picked one up from qld recently, it was a g16b in a sj80 for dirt cheap. its now all legal etc.
on 27inch rubber it was as quick as my vx wagon off the lights! there not that slow. till you add big rubbe]

Especially when compared to things that aren't that fast either.

[russgt]

jonno_racing wrote:

Don Burtron wrote:

i had a 97 VS commodore that made 247KW at the rears and it was a V6 with a V8 cold air intake, full exhaust and a dyno tune..

care to shed some light on this???? the 3.8 makes 140kw at the fly stock so 110 at the wheels at a guess??
how did you make well over 100% improvement? and do you have the dyno sheet and vid to prove it?

x2. I kinda glossed over it thinking it was complete rubbish but would like to be proved wrong.

[DENTED]

russgt wrote:

jonno_racing wrote:

Don Burtron wrote:

i had a 97 VS commodore that made 247KW at the rears and it was a V6 with a V8 cold air intake, full exhaust and a dyno tune..

care to shed some light on this???? the 3.8 makes 140kw at the fly stock so 110 at the wheels at a guess??
how did you make well over 100% improvement? and do you have the dyno sheet and vid to prove it?

x2. I kinda glossed over it thinking it was complete rubbish but would like to be proved wrong.

X3

[Don Burtron]

russgt wrote:

jonno_racing wrote:

Don Burtron wrote:

i had a 97 VS commodore that made 247KW at the rears and it was a V6 with a V8 cold air intake, full exhaust and a dyno tune..

care to shed some light on this???? the 3.8 makes 140kw at the fly stock so 110 at the wheels at a guess??
how did you make well over 100% improvement? and do you have the dyno sheet and vid to prove it?

I have dyno sheets on my lappy i need to get the HD transfered as the battery is stuffed but ill get onto it and post them.

97 and up model vs through to the vz that run ecotec v6s have alloy internals
thats are very easily modified for good power gains.

they have 148 at the fly and 118 at the wheels stock standard with 304nm and the biggest improvement you can do do them is a 3 inch exhaust as they are heavily restricted from the factory.
vs models also run a 300hp fuel pump standard compared to vt and up run a 180hp fuel pump.. hence why the vs guzzle alot more fuel.

I got it tuned at PBE Dynotune in sandgate..

It was a 60k grannies car when i bought it 6 years ago as my first car and verywell looked after.. ill get onto getting these dyno sheets of my pc tomorrow for you guys..

i had other minor mods like plugs coils and leads but nothing else apart from that came out at 247kw with 412 nm..

v6s are wild now days.. the ve sv6 makes 215kw standard with 350 nm on a complete alloy engine and the vf are a little bit faster again..

I know this cause i was a holed salesman from 2004-2011

If i cant find a way to get my hd out of my lappy ill drop it off to the shop on monday to get it posted asap

[mnemonix]

I'm located in Newcastle also and if you're able to provide that car I'm happy to put you on a reputable dyno dynamics dyno at no cost to prove that pbe are falsifying your dyno
sheet.

What ecu were you running in this one of a kind magical beast?

Now I'm very curious about 900hp Nissan.

[fordem]

Don Burtron wrote:

vs models also run a 300hp fuel pump standard compared to vt and up run a 180hp fuel pump.. hence why the vs guzzle alot more fuel.

Really? As far as I know the difference is that the larger pump will flow more fuel, through the FPR and back down the return to the tank, possibly heating it in the process - it will have little or no effect on the consumption.

Quote:

I have dyno sheets on my lappy i need to get the HD transfered as the battery is stuffed but ill get onto it and post them.

If i cant find a way to get my hd out of my lappy ill drop it off to the shop on monday to get it posted asap

If the laptop problem is the battery why not just plug into utility power?

[Don Burtron]

fordem wrote:

Don Burtron wrote:

vs models also run a 300hp fuel pump standard compared to vt and up run a 180hp fuel pump.. hence why the vs guzzle alot more fuel.

Really? As far as I know the difference is that the larger pump will flow more fuel, through the FPR and back down the return to the tank, possibly heating it in the process - it will have little or no effect on the consumption.

Quote:

I have dyno sheets on my lappy i need to get the HD transfered as the battery is stuffed but ill get onto it and post them.

If i cant find a way to get my hd out of my lappy ill drop it off to the shop on monday to get it posted asap

If the laptop problem is the battery why not just plug into utility power?

because the laptop wont even turn on since the battery is dead.. its a 5+ year old lappy and not going to bother buying a new one for it..

and yes your right with the fuel pump but considering the vs has the same injectors standard as the L96 supercharged v6s that are 480cc high impedance and the vt vx and vy only have 330cc injectors means the bigger fuel pump allows it to have alot more potential and means the bigger fuel pump is not just flowing fuel back down to the tank and making more power instead..

[jdk81]

wow

[sideways]

Look into J20a conversions if you want that sort of power. Cheaper, easier, more reliable, more relevant power. A G16b is enough anyway though.

For what it's worth, I've drag raced a few 4wds (Colorado, worked TD42t GQ ect) in my stock auto Jimny and won. The Jimny runs a 20.5 1/4. A G16b Sierra would be a lot quicker (boostedbrick ran a 17.8 in his IIRC). It's a different playing field in 4WD world.

But please, turbo the G16b and tell us how it goes.

[Don Burtron]

mnemonix wrote:

I'm located in Newcastle also and if you're able to provide that car I'm happy to put you on a reputable dyno dynamics dyno at no cost to prove that pbe are falsifying your dyno
sheet.

What ecu were you running in this one of a kind magical beast?

Now I'm very curious about 900hp Nissan.

I ran a motec ecu with a maf tune.. had to build a custom maf sensor out of a f100 sensor since they are one of the mafs that can handle that power..
The engine was a rb30 bottom end with 26 head forged internals etc..
That what every skyline runs to get 1000+ hp.. rb26 can make that power but very costly..

Anyone can state at no cost you can make a false dyno sheet to make someone look wrong but at the end of the day what would be the benifit for the a dyno shop to do that?
Also unless you have a car making that amount of power on the dyno previously you cant make the papers say different..
Unless you have had alot to do with dynos and building high hp cars you wont understand..

I admit i know very little about zooks as this is my first but i have had 3 high hp cars over 5 years and still have 1 now and thats a vy ss with 500hp na

The fact you think a 900hp skyline is a 1 of a kind beast shows your inexperience when it comes to fast cars..
A quick google search will show its doable with the engine config i had and the skylines with 2200 hp running motecs..

haltec and other brands are good but require alot more wiring into the engine with extra sensors etc
thats the skyline.. ill upload more pics of the engine

After the engine was dropped in

The turbo

its a T04z turbo setup
If you know what type of turbo that is you would understand how the power was made

[mnemonix]

The one of a kind mythical beast reference was referring to your v6 with intake mods and a tune that produces over 100% performance increase. Not bad. Must have the best volumetric efficiency of any engine ever built.

I can make the dyno say just anything through simple changes like tyre pressure, drive ratio or air temp correction factors. It happens all the time by businesses to please a customer that wants a big number, claim a figure for "street cred" or to make themselves look better than another shop "on paper".

My brother builds and tunes cars for a living at a performance shop with a 40years history in building the areas toughest cars. He's happy to help you backup your claim, or dispute the fairy tale.

The output of an engine requires more than just the sum of the parts. The GTX3076r on my zook is capable of flowing enough air for 700hp but you don't see me claiming that power figure.

[Don Burtron]

mnemonix wrote:

The one of a kind mythical beast reference was referring to your v6 with intake mods and a tune that produces over 100% performance increase. Not bad. Must have the best volumetric efficiency of any engine ever built.

I can make the dyno say just anything through simple changes like tyre pressure, drive ratio or air temp correction factors. It happens all the time by businesses to please a customer that wants a big number, claim a figure for "street cred" or to make themselves look better than another shop "on paper".

My brother builds and tunes cars for a living at a performance shop with a 40years history in building the areas toughest cars. He's happy to help you backup your claim, or dispute the fairy tale.

The output of an engine requires more than just the sum of the parts. The GTX3076r on my zook is capable of flowing enough air for 700hp but you don't see me claiming that power figure.

if you were talking about the commodore you would not have asked about the ecu the skyline was running..

sure whats your brothers work called and phone number?
Ill call him asap and organise the owner of the car to take it down for the free dyno run to prove the power output..

As for 'street cred' i lived in a country town where there was no street cred lol.. also i was s p plater so the only visual mods was a set of 20s..
shops can claim bigger number as you said but it all comes back to what i have posted before.. what would be the benefit of the shop doing so?
People would go there to get overpriced minor dyno tunes on their cars.. doesnt make sense when you think about it, does it?

The lappy is in the shop now ill get it back tuesday to post papers

[mnemonix]

That's because I didn't ask about the skylines ecu. Read back.

[Pico42]

Putting aside this super commodore business (although I am very keen to see the outcome) where would you start with pulling a bit more power from a G16B? Beginning with a stock engine that's only had a K&N filter, snorkel and extractors fitted.

Pretend that I am happy messing around with the body and suspension, but know sod all about engines (yep, "pretend")

Is there a bunch of small things that can be done that still leave a reliable engine, or is it necessary to bolt on a charger of some sort.

Say for a SWB Vitara to run 33's with crawler transfer gears

[jdk81]

If the above is correct, I would try the intake from a h27a, high performance plugs coils and leads and a huge fuel pump.

[modzook]

G16b
Td04l (mine is off a td27 cant remember exact turbo but the tinyest bit smaller)
aem fic-6
.5 Bar wastegate actuator
2" top mount intercooler
you will want bigger injectors and a rising rate fpr.
If you go this set up I have a map for the fic to get you going.
the g16 has plenty of power down low for 4wding but for highway and every day use running 31's or bigger u will want the cool wooshy noises.

[modzook]

U will also want a 2 1/4 exhaust and a bov to stop comp surge