[swifty_ano]

[*]Hey all,

Sorry to annoy everyone with my timing chain woes posts, but I need some advice before I tear it all down.
Jist of the story goes:

-bought car with loud ticking noise that would disappear.
-added engine flush to old oil and noise disappeared
-dumped oil and replaced with full synthetic 5-30w oil with repco filter
-noise returned immediately
-added Stop tick additive and noise seems to have died down
-its always present on start up but will occasionally disappear after long drives...sometimes not

so my questions are:

do I flush the oil once more and use a genuine filter first before I tear down?
Should I keep driving it and see what happens?
Should I spend the extra and buy a genuine Suzuki tensioner #1?
Does anyone have info on how to get away without removing the intake?

I've tried driving it "hard" for a couple gear changes...the noise disappeared but returned next start up.


Heres a quick video to give you an idea of the sound:
http://s172.photobucket.com/user/anthon ... k.mp4.html

[murcod]

That seems like a different noise to what mine does at start up? Lifters can also be a problem- perhaps try to isolate the source using a mechanics stethoscope?

PS: Regardless, the OEM filters are only around $15 so definitely worth trying before tearing everything apart and spending mega $$$. Even if you just leave the current oil and just do the filter change.

[swifty_ano]

It originally was a sticky lifter, then with an oil change and a good run it quietened down to this.

Yeah you're right about the filter...I would like to give it another flush but the missus doesn't understand changing the oil again haha
I might drop the old filter and try and put a genuine one on.

Ive looked everywhere for a stethoscope but no one sells them locally. Will have to get one off ebay!

[swifty_ano]

So I bought a stethoscope today. You can hear a ticking noise on the timing chain cover. The heads are quiet.
But the noisest metalic ticking noise is from the alternator (which mounts to the motor directly near then timing chain cover)

Is it definately the timing chain? I tried to drop the belt but its pretty tight in there and wanted opinions before I went through effort

[ninjamoses]

Hard to say listening to that vid, doesn't really sound like the usual timing chain rattle you would get on start-up to me but who knows.

Is the timing chain due for replacement (ie. how many km on the motor and has it been done before)?
Personally I'd be buying new belts and a timing chain kit from Greg @ 4WD Products, then start stripping it down.

Pull the radiator out, drop the belts and try the motor before you go any further. If the noise is gone, throw the new belts on and keep the kit for a rainy day.
If the noise is still there, keep going and do the timing chain. You will need to pull the intake etc if you are planning on doing new chains/tensioners etc. There wouldn't be enough room/visibility to do it just pulling the timing cover only (the easy method).

You could try and drop the belts without removing the radiator etc, but I reckon it'll almost be quicker (and a hell of a lot less frustrating) to remove it all so you've actually got room to work.

[swifty_ano]

Heres another video



thats after a long drive.


I might have to do that. I agree ill do the belts with the radiator out.
So the 4wd products kit is the way to go then?
Anything else I'll need? What seals or gaskets should I order?
I feel I should do a water pump when im there too but im under the "if it aint broke" mind set. I have no issue changing it if everyone recommends it.

[ninjamoses]

That sounds more like a knackered bearing to me? I'd definitely be trying it sans belts like you say before ripping into it.

Gaskets/seals you would be removing include:
- Throttle body gasket
- Front and rear intake collector gaskets (x4 total)
- Intake manifold gasket (x2 total)
- Valve cover gaskets (x2 total)
- Tube of ultra black or similar
- Front crankshaft seal

Most would usually recommend doing the water pump at the same time simply due to the amount of labour required to get at it. That said, the water pump can be done just removing the timing chain cover the easy method (which is still a shitload of labour however).

[swifty_ano]

So it wouldn't be a bad idea to buy a full gasket kit aswell then?

[swifty_ano]

I took the car to a mechanic and an engine reconditioner and both think it sounds like a lifter!

Should I flush the oil one more time and do the bleed trick before stripping?
Is this good news or bad news haha

[murcod]

swifty_ano wrote:

I took the car to a mechanic and an engine reconditioner and both think it sounds like a lifter!

That's what I was wondering when I heard it.

[swifty_ano]

murcod wrote:

swifty_ano wrote:

I took the car to a mechanic and an engine reconditioner and both think it sounds like a lifter!

That's what I was wondering when I heard it.

I didn't think it was a chain issue but figured it had to be as its the more comoon problem.

[ninjamoses]

I've got a full set of (supposedly brand new) lifters I pulled out of one of my old motors mate. Previous owner had just replaced them all with new ones thinking it was the cause of the noise (which as it turned out was a spun big end).

If you need one just let me know, happy to post it for a few bucks just to cover the packaging/postage.
Failing that if you want the entire set I'd sell the lot for $50.

[swifty_ano]

Cheers ninjamoose. Sounds good to me.
Ill just do some reasearch and see if it's within my technical skills to replace them and let you know.

[Scrawny]

$50 is a bargain for near new lifers! Worth grabbing even if it isn't the problem

[dhula]

Damb straight it's a good deal. If you don't want them and the deal stands I'll take them off your hands NM as I will be doing some work on Overdrive soonish

[Chop]

I'd be doing a few oil flush and changes first. These motors are notorious for having these issues if the previous owners never did regular oil changes. Recomended oil is actually 15w40, its what I've used in a semi synthetic every 5000km on mine and I've hit 220,000kms and only ever get a tick on a super cold morning first start for 2 seconds.

[swifty_ano]

Chop wrote:

I'd be doing a few oil flush and changes first. These motors are notorious for having these issues if the previous owners never did regular oil changes. Recomended oil is actually 15w40, its what I've used in a semi synthetic every 5000km on mine and I've hit 220,000kms and only ever get a tick on a super cold morning first start for 2 seconds.

Thanks chop. Thats my first port of call, ill do a flush on the weekend with cheaper oil and then see what happens with the noise. If it gets quieter, ill do a second flush.

I figured it may have been a lifter as when I added the oil flush first time, the noise dissappeared. We will see if it happens again.

[dhula]

As well as doing a flush or two, consider running a deso oil for one change cycle (5k kms)
Deso oil usually has more detergent in it to assist with cleaning the crap out.
You can get pety oils with detergent in them but often need to check the specs/data sheets to be sure.
Make sure it's the right weight/spec oil tho if you do use the deso stuff

[swifty_ano]

Has anyone used a diesel oil? What weight should I run?
Ive got good quality full synthetic 5-30w in at the moment. Maybe I should run something a tiny bit thicker?

[murcod]

Here's the oil viscosity chart from a Suzuki Service Manual:


And here's the chart from my 2004 XL-7 (H27A) owner's manual:


I've always used 0 or 5W40 as the temps where I live often exceed 40 C in Summer. I prefer the lower cold weight to get the oil circulating quicker from a cold start.

[klutched]

I run Penrite HPR10 which is a 10w50 with genuine suzuki filter. Before I rebuilt mine I only had minor timing rattle sometimes. The twin had noisy lifters, threw a bottle of lifter noise stopper in with some average oil then flushed it out and put penrite in with a suzuki filter and it was gone.

[swifty_ano]

Did the lifters sound like mine? Video links up in the thread?

[dhula]

I have used Delo 400 (15W40, dso oil) with no probs but I can't recall the temp dropping below 0 here so the viscosity suits where we live.
Am now using HPR gas 10 as it suits all my engines (bikes and cars) and again no probs

All with AC Delco filter

[swifty_ano]

Can anyone confirm if i have to drop the timing chains to change lifters?
Where can i find a service manual, im lost

[klutched]

Yes you have to drop the chains to change the lifters, as you have to pull the cams out.

[fordem]

swifty_ano wrote:

Can anyone confirm if i have to drop the timing chains to change lifters?
Where can i find a service manual, im lost

There's a sticky post in the Suzuki forums (www.suzuki-forums.com) with a link to a downloadable copy.

[swifty_ano]

Ok cheers.
I had a few mechanics say you didn't need to drop the cam chain..maybe they haven't worked on these cars.

ill download a manual and go from there I guess.

[klutched]

Hmm, I haven't just tried to pull the lifters out but im 99% sure you wont be able to get out without pulling the chains. While you're there you might as well throw a gasket kit through it. If it's not a daily I'd recommend pulling the motor out and doing the lower crankcase seals as they are common for leaking.

You can see here trying to get the lifters out without pulling the cam chain would be near on impossible.

[Scrawny]

That looks like a shim/bucket setup?

[fordem]

It's the same concept, but there are no shims - consider it a hydraulic bucket that sits between the cam and the end of the valve stem.