[vet 180]

I am going to stick this in the newb section as it is a newbish question.

Basically I have been considering buying a new Jimny for a while now. Main reasons are to have a reliable daily, something I can have fun with and go camping on the weekend and general 4x4 exploring, new car warranty, low interest rates where I live (2.5% for a new car) and the 2015 model has offroad traction control.

I decided a few months ago to wait until Ramadaan as there is a chance Suzuki might have a good deal on the new car, and they do! Better than any other manufacturer buy a long way. I have been following the Jimny in the used and new market for around 3 years now and got close to pulling the trigger a couple times but never did for various reasons.

I will convert into Australian dollars to make it easier for this forum to understand although it is subject to exchange rate differences:

Normal price for a manual Jimny is just over 20,000aud and 22,000 for the auto.

8-10 year old ones used with a lot of kms go for $9000 and then say 5 years old with 100,000-150,000kms will be around $12,00-$14,000. They are all generally pretty thrashed an auto vs manual has no real affect on resale. There normally are very few for sale so often finding a used one for sale at all can be difficult.

Now the deal Suzuki have for the "holy month" is:
7 years warranty and 16,500 for the manual. So it means I can sell after a few years under warranty and only cost me a couple thousand. But I will have the peace of mind of a new car and something that can go offroad cheap. I also like the fact that the 2015 model has the off-road style traction control, so should go a little further offroad than a 2013 spec and less need for airlockers. I also really like the charcoal on charcoal 2015 spec wheels and colour scheme.

P.s. Charcoal on Charcoal looks like this:
http://a1.image.cars.co.za/image/upload ... 632_10.jpg

Would be better with a different front bar. The silver and while look ok with the charcoal wheels also I guess.


My biggest worry is the wife. Unfortunately the car she has spent the most time in here has been my CL55 Mercedes. When she jumped into a new nissan sunny rental car she literally thought it was broken claiming the accelerator doesn't work, it feels unsafe, something is wrong with the suspension and the wind blows it. She does want a newer reliable car as the merc does cost a lot to maintain and repair. Now she has spent a bit f time behind the wheel of the sunny and is coming to grips with it and the fact you cant "have it all". I have been preparing her to the fact the Jimny wont be the most stable also, but I haven't put her in the car yet to see how she reacts. I will do soon. generally she likes the looks and she is a short ass so the size isn't an issue.

The other concern is safety.

Now Suzuki have made me consider a car I would not have during this"holy month" promotion, and that is the SWB vitara. Normally the car isn't great value at $27,000 but they have a very good deal on it at just under $21,000. I see low kms 2013 and 2014 models go cheaper used. the car also has good resale.

Because of the deal I am thinking it might be nicer for the wife, but can still get out a little. In the dunes I don't think there will be much in it, in fact the Vit might even be better due to bigger engine, but in other terrain the Jim will smash it. On the highway the Vitara will be better and a bit more stable. the vitara is a bit bigger and nicer inside. I have only ever driven the LWB NGV in manual and I will be buying the SWB Auto (no manual option here), so will have to see how that feels.

I would prefer the jim as its cheaper, prob a little easier to sell (although they will both be easy), better offroad and will be a little cheaper to run (although not great on the highway). The Vitara does have the J24 engine issues, but who cares 7 year warranty and I will sell it in warranty still. Vitara is in my mind a safer car, but no concrete evidence there, just a feeling. the Vit does have a bigger saving, but both are good deals with good resale. I could easily sell both in the winter and lose nothing, but I will keep for a couple years. Both will be better than renting like we are now.

So what would you do? Is my logic flawed? Am I gay for considering an Auto GV over a manual Jimny? And yes I have to get the wife in both cars to see her reaction.

[fordem]

Just sayin...

You're looking at two very different vehicles, in terms of size, stability & creature comfort - I don't see my wife in a Jimny.

[vet 180]

fordem wrote:

Just sayin...

You're looking at two very different vehicles, in terms of size, stability & creature comfort - I don't see my wife in a Jimny.

Oh for sure! Hence why its in the Newb zone....

The issue is that Suzuki do not allow test drives of the Jimny. Yes serious, they expect you to buy a new car not having driven it. It justs sell so easily. So I can't take the wife down and compare the two. So all I can do is find an old hacked out used model and see if she can tolerate it. I also "feel" the Jimny would take my abuse better.

[alien]

MrRocky on here is about 6ft and drove jimny and swb ngv side by side and bought the ngv... personally i reckon i'd do the same... the swb GV looks and drives WAY better.

[vet 180]

alien wrote:

MrRocky on here is about 6ft and drove jimny and swb ngv side by side and bought the ngv... personally i reckon i'd do the same... the swb GV looks and drives WAY better.

Yeah I have always like the Jimny, I do prefer solid front axle small 4x4's. And with the price difference normally I would not consider the GV, or second hand due to J24 aids. But 7 years warranty, such a large discount and highway manners makes it is really worth considering.

P.s. Cheers for the feedback

[Rollin]

If you can hold off for another year apparently the new jimny will be out, and it will be a 'full redesign' - according to random snippets on the internet anyway.

Maybe the new jimny will be improved enough to make it a good option for your wife? Although it will probably cost as much as a vitara does now...

[alien]

I believe the 2016 release is only that, and the replacement will be a MY17 - so definitely not worth holding your breath.

[vet 180]

Rollin wrote:

If you can hold off for another year apparently the new jimny will be out, and it will be a 'full redesign' - according to random snippets on the internet anyway.

Maybe the new jimny will be improved enough to make it a good option for your wife? Although it will probably cost as much as a vitara does now...

Every concept pic I have seen so far doesn't look promising. I have heard they will stick to the roots and it will be solid front axle etc. If you have anything solid on how it will be post it up, I would interested to see it.

UAE sells a lot of old models alongside new models due to proven reliability and off-road ability.

e.g. Y61 and Y62 patrol. They tried to faze out the GU patrol, but the demand was so high they had to bring it back and sell along side the y62 patrol.

So if the new car doesn't live up to its expectation all it will do is increase the resale of the old one. Or they will demand the old one back. I quite like the 2015 model as it has the TC, but is still basic and all proven parts.

It's all pretty moot anyway as I want to get into it this month. And want the ramadaan deal. As said earlier I have never seen either of these cars this cheap new here before and they sell for more used. I was pretty set on the Jimny, but the $5,500 price reduction on the GV has me considering it for the missus. The jimny still is cheaper, but the GV is a great deal. I guess I just have to take her for a drive of both.

[vet 180]

So the missus took the Jim for a drive. She didn't complain about the car too much, but did get a bit caught up on it being manual. She can drive manual, but would prefer auto. If we go auto though I am thinking the GV would be a better option.

The other option if I can find a good one is a used 3.5 vq35 r50 pathfinder as they are pretty cheap to buy into, reasonably reliable, drive well on the highway, not too bad offroad and have a powerful engine.

[alien]

Do they still make SWB Pajero over there?

[vet 180]

alien wrote:

Do they still make SWB Pajero over there?

Yeah they do, but bitsofshity have a complicated pricing structure.

For reference the vitara is on a good special for 59,000aed and the normal price is 77,000aed.

Mitsubishi often have sales on there LWB paj for around 80,000aed which is good value at first glance, and great if you have a family.

But the SWB is often more.
Also base models come with the 3.5 with an ancient 4 speed box which is very gutless in the bigger car compared to its completion.
The 3.8 mated with the 5 speed is a a much better engine and comes ONLY in the top of the range model but that is 120,00-130,000aed. So all of a sudden its double the Vitara. And has a bunch of options I really don't like such as rear DVD screens, cheap wood grain interior leather seats, basically it's trying to be a luxury SUV but its really just a cheaply tarted up budget SUV. For that price I would much prefer a wrangler or xterra which are far better cars. Also compared to the wrangler or xterra the paj is very dull and lifeless to drive. Even the swb feels very heavy and boat like. I drove the xterra and LWB 3.5 paj back to back same day and the xterra was so much better.

In fact when I was looking for a car for a mate I drove a 2002 vq35 r50 pathfinder and 2008 3.5 SWB Pajero back to back and the pathfinder was better in every way also. Felt lighter, more stable, better rear articulation, much better engine, more space, just better.

[Mike57]

I would buy the NGV. More room and more power and a far more refined car than the Jimny. Still capable offroad. I would not really want to have a Jimny as a daily driver.

[Gwagensteve]

If you're going to buy a GV with any intention of driving offroad, buy an auto. The manual clashes with the traction control bad,y from my experience.

[vet 180]

Gwagensteve wrote:

If you're going to buy a GV with any intention of driving offroad, buy an auto. The manual clashes with the traction control bad,y from my experience.

Thanks for that. Interesting information. It might affect my decision as I was already thinking manual for jimny or auto for GV. But what you said is interesting as the 2015 jimny gets traction control and is one reason why I liked it as it takes away any advantage the GV would have had off-road. I am sure it will run the same TC system as the GV.

Could you elaborate on how it interferes? Any issues with the auto? Any other GV owners want to chime in?

What ever car I get I will keep pretty basic, just a small lift 2inch or less and slightly bigger tyres. Terrain will be large sand dunes, trails, wadi's and light rock. Very little to no mud. Tires will most likely be a tough all terrain not decided yet, but the most aggressive I will go will be a stt max.

[Gwagensteve]

When the TC grabs a spinning wheel, the huge increase in load on the motor stalls it out. It also feels like when the brake grabs the spinning wheel and transfers torque to the loaded tyre, it spins, the computer freaks out and cuts power. In short, It's not well calibrated to off road use at all. As it's almost impossible to tell when the TC will grab the brake, the driver has to approach everything with quite a few revs on board to overcome the TC stalling the motor out. Leads to fast and lurchy progress where you'd like to be taking your time and picking your way through.

The auto eases these problems as at least it doesn't stall. The trade off with the auto is that you can't left foot brake the auto to stall up the converter, because that overrides the traction control, so progress is still a bit too quick and lurchy.

I can't comment on the Jimny TC, but I suspect it's going to be similar. At least you can readily lock the diffs in a Jimny and gear the transfer so you don't have to rely on the TC.

Id probably still say the NGV for sand - more power, more stable, and the jimny's low speed technical terrain advantage is less of an issue.

[vet 180]

Gwagensteve wrote:

When the TC grabs a spinning wheel, the huge increase in load on the motor stalls it out. It also feels like when the brake grabs the spinning wheel and transfers torque to the loaded tyre, it spins, the computer freaks out and cuts power. In short, It's not well calibrated to off road use at all. As it's almost impossible to tell when the TC will grab the brake, the driver has to approach everything with quite a few revs on board to overcome the TC stalling the motor out. Leads to fast and lurchy progress where you'd like to be taking your time and picking your way through.

The auto eases these problems as at least it doesn't stall. The trade off with the auto is that you can't left foot brake the auto to stall up the converter, because that overrides the traction control, so progress is still a bit too quick and lurchy.

I can't comment on the Jimny TC, but I suspect it's going to be similar. At least you can readily lock the diffs in a Jimny and gear the transfer so you don't have to rely on the TC.

Id probably still say the NGV for sand - more power, more stable, and the jimny's low speed technical terrain advantage is less of an issue.

Solid Post!

Cheers for that. You learn something new everyday I have only driven the GV onroad so no experience with the TC off-road. Although I thought it might be pointless making this thread as I am comparing 2 different cars, I am glad I did as posts like this one helped.

Thanks again for taking the time to explain it, it really makes sense in my head what is happening.

For sand and sand alone I think the NGV might be better also. The jimny would be more "fun" though especially in the technical dunes where I wouldn't take a bigger car. Other situations like wadi's and rocky trails the Jim will be better though.

But the wife seems pretty set on auto and it will be used as a reliable daily for us also and there is a lot of highway driving here. All of these factors are in favor of the GV.

[Reubs]

vet 180 wrote:

For sand and sand alone I think the NGV might be better also. The jimny would be more "fun" though especially in the technical dunes where I wouldn't take a bigger car. Other situations like wadi's and rocky trails the Jim will be better though.

IMO a stock Jimny would out-drive a stock NGV in virtually any offroad situation - and especially in soft sand.

[Gwagensteve]

I disagree with that Reubs. I reckon a SWB J24 NGV would be pretty amusing to drive on sand.

I do think the Jimny would be better pretty much everywhere else (off road)

[vet 180]

Reubs wrote:

vet 180 wrote:

For sand and sand alone I think the NGV might be better also. The jimny would be more "fun" though especially in the technical dunes where I wouldn't take a bigger car. Other situations like wadi's and rocky trails the Jim will be better though.

IMO a stock Jimny would out-drive a stock NGV in virtually any offroad situation - and especially in soft sand.

For the more technical stuff with lots of small bowels and peaky crests yeah the jimny would still be best. But the Jimny just doesn't have the power to get up some of the flatter bigger dunes such as:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6nJola1Ei8

[shep]

I have owned both a facelift jimny and a NGV and they are completely different cars. There is no off-road situation where the NGV will be better then a jimny.
If you take a GV off road then get used to damaging it and getting stuck.

[vet 180]

Still haven't pulled the trigger on this one yet. Have to make up my mind soon before the promotion runs out. I am leaning towards the GV though. Main reasons are the amount of highway driving we do, the increased stability for the wife, and the safety. Road accidents are this regions biggest killer so the extra safety of the GV will give some peace of min when the wife is driving alone. Although if I buy the GV I think I should just hang my testicles up on a shelf and remember times I used to use them.

[vet 180]

So after leaning towards the GV the missus comes to me and says she wants the Jim, but it must be auto.

So last night we head to Suzuki to pull the trigger. We get there there and both the jimnys and SWB GV's are all sold out! He said "I can check to see if one of the reserved ones are over due for payment". One jimny was, we don't know the colour or even 100% if we can get it. It is auto though. We put down a small deposit to try and secure it, we will find out start of next week. Will be another 1.5 months till any of either are avl and the price will be back to rrp. So we will probably give it a miss if this one doesn't come through.

Never driven an auto Jim so will be interesting to see how it is. I am guessing very slow haha.

[in_the_blender]

When I bought my 2015 Manual Jimny, one of my best mates saw it and bought an auto 2 weeks later.

There seems to be some advantages to the auto, the smoother power delivery helps on slippery climbs, and obviously stalling is never an issue, but the manual has the advantage of being able to rev and pop the clutch to pop over obstacles. Downhill control is far far better in the manual, I rarely use the brakes in lowrange 1st, whereas the auto gets some pretty severe fade at the end of long descents.

Still a fun car, slower than the manual, but its like comparing a snail vs a slug in a drag race. These cars are built to be driven at 30kmh, and thats where they really shine.

[Gwagensteve]

Neutral drop.

I assume the owner of the auto Jimny is locking it into 1st for descents? I don't reckon an auto Jimny in locked 1st would be all that much taller than a manual one.

Autos are so much better off-road it's unfunny. Anyone who says different is ignorant.

Steve.

[in_the_blender]

To be fair, while I have tried to explain selecting the gear, im pretty sure he's just leaving it in D.

And to risk a smug reply, I prefer manual and feel it is the superior choice of transmission. I feel more connected to the experience when I have complete control of the fate of a vehicle (win or lose).

Anyone who says different is entitled to their opinion. So it goes.

[vet 180]

I read a really nice article comparing auto to manual once for 4x4 work. Both have their positives and negatives.

My take is Manual is superior for it's simplicity, reliability, direct feedback to the driver,slightly more power and more envviny drive. Auto is superior for real low speed stuff, left foot braking, TC torque distribution and quick gear changes. Real low speed technical stuff and auto will be a lot smoother and in control.

I have driven a few auto 4x4's off-road but never owned one. Ironically my SWB pajero I bought because it was manual, and although there was situations when I loved it being manual I would have preferred that on a whole if it was auto. I would have kept it and thrown a 1uzfe in it after I blew the first engine if it was auto. It also didn't have enough torque in 1st high to do most the dunes I drove, but was rather heavy and bogged down hard on gear changes in low range. Although it was more rewarding when you got it right being a manual. Both my zuks were manual and I enjoyed them as manuals.

[vet 180]

So found out last night we got this in the end. Should be 5 days till delivery