[Heathejj97]

So no one can tell me if I need engineering to swap over to a baleno engine, department of transport says that with the increase in size and power I will need engineering however I heave many people in wa who get away simply with a change of engine numbers. Anyone in wa know anything? I'm thinking of doing the conversion cheers

[Gwagensteve]

This conversion requires some form of official approval throughout Australia. I am aware of people just informing the local registration authority of a change of engine number but that's effectively fraud.
I can speak from experience that trying to transfer or re register a car where the owner has done this is very, very difficult- effectively as difficult as trying to register a car where the engine number hadn't been changed with the authority

The same is true for GTi and even G13bb conversions because of the power increase but the peanut gallery always chimes in the it's legal because capacity doesn't change, which is only 1/2 of the story- if power output increases more than 10% then approval is required.

[MrRocky]

All u need to do is take in the engine number and swap details over
No engineering is necessary in w.a.

[MrRocky]

Even taking 1.6 conversions over the pits they are aware of the cc increase and just change the number its not really a big deal unless u cop a nazi inspector

[Gwagensteve]

That's fascinating and contrary to national guidelines.
Who checks you upgraded the fuel lines to EFI, who checks the engine doesn't throw codes? Who checks it still meets emissions?

What percentage power increase requires approval if 40% isn't enough?

Steve.

[MrRocky]

Haha i know every inspector/pits ive been over dont bat an eyelid

[Heathejj97]

my worry is is WANT my car as "legal" as possible, i would like to assume if i had a serious crash that was my fault and vehicles were inspected- that id be covered by insurance, im not worried about a defect as such... if i file for a transfer for engine numbers and it is successful- would i be correct to assume its then legal as my engine is licensed to that vehicle?

[alien]

What MrRocky said is true to my experience also.

I went 1.6 and just filled out an engine number change (and left capacity the same) and no one batted an eye. Then as part of my engineering i put the 1.6 capacity engine down and when i went over the pits for inspection they took a glance at it, asked me who fitted it (suzistore) and moved on. They didn't even check the number!

So far as legality - no, if you just do the number change it's not legal as the capacity increase has not been noted. It's not a big deal though, as you can go up to a 1.8L engine in a sierra without engineering (brake tests etc) so just do it properly and take it over the pits. Infact don't go to the pits, there's approved mechanics now. I had a good experience with the one's in Greenwood just recently.

Oh, and make sure when you do it, you have them note that you have "extractors and custom exhaust" - then no one can ping you for that down the track like i was just because it wasn't noted on the paperwork.

[HarryHoudini]

Heathejj97 wrote:

my worry is is WANT my car as "legal" as possible, i would like to assume if i had a serious crash that was my fault and vehicles were inspected- that id be covered by insurance, im not worried about a defect as such... if i file for a transfer for engine numbers and it is successful- would i be correct to assume its then legal as my engine is licensed to that vehicle?

Thats the point many people miss,Insurance Ço,'s look for a reason to not pay after a claim,if there are modifications from stock(they don't necessarily have to be illegal) that weren't noted on the policy its off to court you go to get them to meet the claim.

[MrRocky]

Unless u plan on keeping it super stock you will struggle
50mm max overall lift with susp and tyres then you will need it approved by dpi and your insurance company. U will also need to leave your swaybar in which at this point you may as well buy a 1.6 efi vitara and be comfortable while not being capable offroad

[Gwagensteve]

So back to my question then, if a 40% power increase and a 25% capacity increase don't require approval, how much power or capacity increase DOES require approval?

[alien]

https://infrastructure.gov.au/roads/veh ... 011_v3.pdf

VSB14 states more than 120% mass or power increase, so technically it's un-engineer-able with a 1.6L - but i reckon if you put the application in they will approve it.

Gotta love VSB14 - glad i got in before that steaming pile of shit became standard. lol

[Gwagensteve]

I think you've misunderstood VSB14.

An engine with under 120% of the mass / power increase might be permissible without reference to LA codes (so long as all the other requirements were met. So, an M15 into an M13 jimny might be legal without engineer approval. Likewise, a 304 V8 into a 253 commodore might also be legal without approval, or a 351 into a 302 falcon, dependent on declared power.

However, an engine with greater than 120% of the mass/power increase will refer you to the LA codes. For a 4WD, there are no capacity limits, but the engineer still has to sign off on the result based on power, emissions, braking etc.

So, at 25% capacity and 40% power, a G16B requires approval.
at 55% power increase, a G13B GTi needs approval. Even a G13BB requires approval. (more than 20% increase or 120% of the original motor.

In theory, an LS would be engineerable in a Sierra so long as you could convince an engineer it was safe. VSB14 is cool as far as I am concerned. We could have go something much, much worse.

Victoria has been working with these rules for YEARS. Gregc's car was built I.A.W VSB14 10 years ago.

[henno]

HarryHoudini wrote:

Thats the point many people miss,Insurance Ço,'s look for a reason to not pay after a claim,if there are modifications from stock(they don't necessarily have to be illegal) that weren't noted on the policy its off to court you go to get them to meet the claim.

Not entirely true and a common misconception. Sure, they might take you off to court but the onus is upon then to prove that the un-noted modification directly contributed to the accident (i.e. it could be argued that huge tyres reduced braking ability, but they could not deny a claim because you had modified the suspension but were t-boned by a truck while waiting at the lights.)

[alien]

Gwagensteve wrote:

I think you've misunderstood VSB14.

Probably!

Gwagensteve wrote:

Gregc's car was built I.A.W VSB14 10 years ago.

Yeah, mine was engineered per VSB14 specs/requirements OTHER than it exceeding the max 150mm lift. It passed all the required testing otherwise so they couldn't refute it, and my paperwork was approved pre-VSB14 so it really didn't even have to meet those standards.

[Heathejj97]

thankyou all, contacted two engineers today and its a bit more involved with what i thought (in terms of getting them to actually sign it as safe) and over 1k easily, looks like im sticking to my trusty oil burning 1.3

[alien]

why over $1k? What do they require you to do?

[Gwagensteve]

Sounds about right to me for certification. Cheap when you consider it probably doubles the cars resale value.

[Heathejj97]

No clue on specifics but if he isn't happy and I have to do more work to the car he will charge for another assessment etc. so I can't get an exact cost figure

[alien]

Try Jack Apgar. He's semi-retired but may entertain the idea of doing it. He was my engineer and very reasonably priced.

[Heathejj97]

awesome thanks for that mate

[MrRocky]

Last i heard he had pulled the pin only doing very select projects dont think brian could get him to do his eh

[Heathejj97]

Found an engineer, $350 signed off cheers