[GraphicX]

ok, yes we're all sick of seeing these '2" jimny lift options' threads *yes i have made one myself lol* but i need a pair of rear shocks & would love to go adjustable.

i've googled, come up with ranchos which i thought right away i'll have ... then realised their for standard ride height only

jimny bits have the avo type, but poor au dollar, freight & all that.

any other options ? i really like the idea of stiff shocks for towing (which is what i have now), but soft shocks to save my back so would like to go adjustable. failing that i'm just going to get dobinsons & hope i like them.

[Gwagensteve]

commercially affordable adjustable shocks are a useless gimmick. I've spent enough money on Ranchos over the years to be able to tell you this first hand.

And I STILL don't know what a 2" shock is. I guess it's a shock that's 2" longer extended. Which means it's 1" longer compressed, which means you've eaten up the safety factor the factory allowed to prevent the mounts being broken in the event of a hard bottom out.

In any case, are 2" jimny rear springs longer free than a stock jimny coil? Many "lift" springs aren't longer in free length than stock (quite a few are shorter) , meaning a "2" shock" might need to be shorter than standard extended to prevent coil unseating, which is, I believe, a huge problem for the rear of Jimny's with lift springs. In that case, a 2" shock might just be a shock with heavier valving to better suit the higher rate of the springs.

Sorry Graphix, this wasn't at all intended as a dig at you, the way suspension is discussed and marketed has very little to do with reality and it's so endemic.

[GraphicX]

from memory when the springs were out the rear lifted springs were about the same length as the front stock springs, but they were much thicker & heavier.

i haven't had any issues with bottoming out on the bump stops, but can't say that i've hit it hard enough to test out whether they'll reach in an emergency as they need to (i know bits4vits sell aftermarket bump stops but the car's already a bit of a money pit).

well i guess my choices are basically the dobinsons shocks or even the old man emu set. i really just don't want to put money into one only to find i'm unhappy with them when fitted. from what i've heard people say the OME setup is too soft, but i've got king springs so dunno if i'd experience the same issue.

[Gwagensteve]

OME are very soft. Cant comment beyond that. Regardless, shocks aren't sized by the suspension lift height. They're sized by compressed length primarily. Nobody does this though, because compressed length isn't cool.

[Jezza86]

ill let you know how the AVO shocks handle the NT.

[GraphicX]

Gwagensteve wrote:

And I STILL don't know what a 2" shock is. I guess it's a shock that's 2" longer extended. Which means it's 1" longer compressed, which means you've eaten up the safety factor the factory allowed to prevent the mounts being broken in the event of a hard bottom out.

well steve, seems you really know what you're on about with these things.

here's pictures of one of my front shock mounts:

Attachment:

ShockMount_2015-10-03 09.57.44.jpg

Attachment:

ShockMount_2015-10-03 09.57.55.jpg

my guess is i've bottomed out on the shock absorber & it's just torn.

am i right in thinking i need to extend my bump stops to compensate ? would the correct additional bump stop spacing be the length difference of these shocks when compressed versus the stock shock length when compressed ?

[J--A--C--K]

Off topic but when I first got into modding , I though heavy duty 2inch shock meant the piston diameter was 50mm

[Gwagensteve]

It might as well. It would be more meaningful than describing a 2" "lift" shock.

[sideways]

Koni make adjustable shocks for Jimnys. I don't know in what way they're adjustable though.

The fronts are rather short, 395mm extended. That's shorter than stock and probably not even long enough for 2" lift.

And they're bloody expensive.

[Gwagensteve]

Koni's are adjustable for rebound only and normally require removal from the vehicle to adjust (although no disassembly of the shock is required)

[Jezza86]

the AVO shocks appear to adjust bound and rebound at the same time. rebound appears to be a bit softer then bound.

i have to say so far they have been fantastic for everything, much more comfortable the the old es5000 shocks i had.
the only problem i hve had is they are a bit soft towing the trailer.

but hay im towing a 400kg trailer up a corrugated highway, behind a jimny, whos towball is 2 foot off the ground. its not the shocks fault!

[got_bar_work]

Ive been doing a lot of reading on pirate 4x4 lately and im starting tho think that the entire after market industry have no idea on spring or shock selection.
There is realy no reason u would ever need to increase spring rate over stock. U want more height just add more free length. Springs are only there to hold up the car they realy have not much to do with handling. Thats what shocks and and sway bars are for. U want the lightest possibly spring rate that will do the job.
Then u valve the shit out of the shocks to control compression. Because u have low spring rate u can run low reboud. The idea is to slow uptravel before u hit the bump stop then let it drop out as fast as possible before the next bump so u dont get packing. This is total opposite of aftermarket suspension. They run short stiff coils with little compression valving and lots of rebound valving. When u hit a bump it smashes into the bump stop then cant drop out fast enough before the next bump so it smashes into it again and again. Thats y it rides like shit . U want a shock with compression adjusters. That way when going fast and or loaded up u can up the valving then loosen it right up when empty and crawling

[Marko_SJ]

got_bar_work wrote:

Ive been doing a lot of reading on pirate 4x4 lately and im starting tho think that the entire after market industry have no idea on spring or shock selection.
There is realy no reason u would ever need to increase spring rate over stock. U want more height just add more free length. Springs are only there to hold up the car they realy have not much to do with handling. Thats what shocks and and sway bars are for. U want the lightest possibly spring rate that will do the job.
Then u valve the shit out of the shocks to control compression. Because u have low spring rate u can run low reboud. The idea is to slow uptravel before u hit the bump stop then let it drop out as fast as possible before the next bump so u dont get packing. This is total opposite of aftermarket suspension. They run short stiff coils with little compression valving and lots of rebound valving. When u hit a bump it smashes into the bump stop then cant drop out fast enough before the next bump so it smashes into it again and again. Thats y it rides like shit . U want a shock with compression adjusters. That way when going fast and or loaded up u can up the valving then loosen it right up when empty and crawling

Long story short, spring weight to suit the weight of the vehicle and thus get the proper sag measurements AKA getting the thing to sit at the right part of the stroke, sit too low and you're going to pack no matter what.

and then set damping so that it balances keeping wheels on the ground with comfort and keeping both ends balanced.

[Gwagensteve]

You're broadly correct got_bar_work, but the problem is when you're designing a suspension to work with a range of loads and within very restrictive factory parameters. Adding free height without adding rate requires added turns. Added turns need to fit somewhere and then you can run into spring bind. Space the bumpstops to prevent bind and then you have limited compression travel so tuning ride without bottoming or packing become difficult.
Adding height with stock rates results in cars that sag heavily when laden.

It's not really the suspension manufacturers fault that the 4wd community doesn't understand suspension. They walk into the shop expecting an X" lift with more travel and more load carrying and a better ride.

Cars are designed for stock parameters.

[got_bar_work]

Ur right about the big swings in weight .thats y in going rover style and fitting a airbag in the center of the diff. I just got 150lbs 18in coil over coils in my gv and they are still to high so i might go down to 100lbs springs .
Like u keep saying u need to match spring travel with suspension and shock travel. Most aftermarket springs dont keep preload on them at full down travel because they are around stock length . U cant gain useable travel with out gainingfree length. Only 2 ways to get longer shocks and coils. Bump stop spacing or moving mounts. Life would be so much easier if all 4x4 ran coilovers
So easy to set up and the ability to just add a bit of preload when u load up would be nice

[pete_79]

Are coil overs legal though?

Not being smart. Just want to know.

[got_bar_work]

Cant see y not
Mounts would need to be engineered

[Rhinoman]

Gwagensteve wrote:

Adding free height without adding rate requires added turns. Added turns need to fit somewhere and then you can run into spring bind.

Not necessarily, if a thicker gauge is used then less coils are needed, adding turns with the same gauge wire gives a softer spring. I have the Jimnybits +2" springs and the compressed height isn't much different to a stock spring, spring bind isn't an issue. The rear shocks (Rough Country) are, from memory, 3" longer than stock extended and required a 1" bump stop spacer. If you have a rear panhard bracket that raises the mounting point then you need to make sure that that doesn't hit the chassis. For now I just have front shock extenders so I haven't been through the shock lengths and clearances for the front.