[wizo4692]

Hay people, I'm new to the forum and the zook world all together.
I'm wanting to do a Sierra soft top build, not a daily driver more abit of fun and a laugh on the dunes.
I'm looking at purchasing a 1.3 carby (for cost resons)
$1000 max.

Now what I'm hear to ask is how can I push the most power out of it for around $1000, I'm not so much after clean smooth power just funny big kids toy power, turbo kind of power.

Modify the 1.3 , gti conversion, 1.6 conversion, toyo conversion
I'm really not sure and thats what I'm here to find out??

Not concerned about suspension and that just the most power to weight I can squeeze out on a budget .

Some what mechanical minded, (still like to have a Gregory manual by my side haha) and a fabricator by trade so will be attending to do as much possible on my own.

Little car, big noise, tight buget and rooster tails out the back.. That's the aim of the game
Cheers

[Gwagensteve]

Nothing. Anything you could possibly to do substantially increase power to weight via added engine power will cost significantly more than $1K.

Whilst GTi motors (and G16B's) can be had for under $1K, it's impossible to complete a swap for anything like that money once you add fuel system, exhaust, and all the little things required to complete the swap. $2-$3K is more realistic.

Either motor will provide 90-100hp, up from 67hp stock. Substantial increases beyond that will cost exponentially more.

If your budget is actually $1K, The best possible mod would be to reduce weight as much as possible and correct gearing for the larger tyres I'm sure you have or are planning.

Steve.

[pezz]

Big bike engine from a wreak

[Gwagensteve]

How cheap are they though, and how complex and $$$ will that be to adapt to a gearbox? Most of the bike engine conversions I've seen have either some hokey drive mess, no reverse, and/or still use the tiny bike clutch even though the finished car is 8 times heavier and has LOADS more driveline inertia than the clutch can handle.

In all honestly the cheapest way I can think of to get "rooster tails" would be to spray the motor. Almost nobody thinks of this though.

[wizo4692]

It will only be running smaller tyres, won't really be doing any serious bush work like rocks or anything like that mainly just big dunes. and will attempt some weight reduction but it all seriousness how much weight can you really remove from a car that's weight resembles a hot wheels car haha, max modification budget could stretch to $1500

But it looks like my dreams of a budget little rocket are being crushed very fast

[pezz]

I bought a written off busa for 800 years ago, dog tooth clutch kit depending on how your fab skills are will vary in cost, along with a jackshaft to be fabbed to the stock gearbox.. end of the day if it turns out to be a shitter, some clown will buy it off fb or ebay for a bucketload




I wonder how much a stock donk will take from the bottle

[Gwagensteve]

Your car is already a "little rocket" on sand.

What size are "smaller tyres"

Steve.

[wizo4692]

Haven't made a decision on rubber yet , I'm only in the planing process now I just want to be 100% on what I want to do and I figured best way to be sure is ask the gurrus so I do it right 1st time haha, would keeping everything small, rebuild the motor (depending on condition), extractors, suss out the carby (tune or rebuild or replace) and maybe a small cam be something to more look at?

[Gwagensteve]

Sure, but none of those things are going to substantially improve horsepower. Mostly they add noise, reduce power band and therefore make the car feel loads more hektik, but in reality the difference isn't startling for the time and money expended.

There's no way you can rebuild a G13 for anything like $1K and expect it to last. It's my opinion it's not worth rebuilding these motors at all - they are so cheap to buy and comparatively expensive to rebuild that you'd just buy another one from a wreck that's in better nick.

Getting 100HP out of a G13B is quite possible, but it will cost more than fitting an EFI G13B (GTi) or G16B which adds the reliability and diagnostics of EFI along with factory build. Additionally, getting carbs to work on big angles is a pain.

I'm not sure if you've driven a Sierra on sand yet, but they are so much better than any larger 4WD that you might want to choose your tyre size, gear the car to suit the tyre size, and drive it before you decide how much power you need to get the job done.

[wizo4692]

Yeah okay, Iv driven a vitara on the beach but never Sierra. Maybe I'm just not being realistic after all haha, I have my patrol for my regular 4bing was just after a novelty toy really haha, it's all come from a mate of mine wth a big petrol turbo patrol that brings you to tears of laughter when you see and hear it barrel across a dune with flames coming out the back haha,
I have a 351 I was thinking of putting in a swb patrol but I have a real soft spots for zooks and always wanted one and always feel they have great potential for an over the top power to weight ratio but starting to think my dreams are bigger than my pockets haha . Thanks for the opinions tho . Tom

[Gwagensteve]

Oh I completely understand the idea, but in reality it's always going to be expensive to build a car with high power to weight, regardless of the starting point, even more so if you want it to be reasonably reliable.

The reality is that I bet that petrol turbo patrol doesn't have much better power to weight than an empty soft top sierra with a G16B in it, which is a cheap and easy build - just not $1K cheap.

[sideways]

You could do a G16a conversion. Though people tend to ask bonkers prices for the engines, you'll have much better luck at wreckers. Probably a $200-300 engine from the wreckers, adapter kit $200ish. There's not much else you need, easily doable for under $1k especially if you already have exhaust and extractors. Not a big gain in power though. You can sell off your 1.3 at the end too, though they aren't worth a lot.

There's also the 4K carby conversion. You could probably buy the carb for all of $50, they aren't much new either. The Weber and Harley carb conversions are also popular but expensive. G16a carb is also good but rare.

Skim the head for more compression. A VRS kit is $60ish and probably that again to get it machined + an afternoon. Maybe play with cam timing too.

Extractors and a 2" straight through exhaust. $165 for extractors off eBay and people have had exhausts made for as little as $300. One fellow on here did this, dyno'd before and after and got +15% power all the way across the power curve. Extractors come up on facebook for cheap quite often, sometimes whole exhausts too.

Play with ignition timing. Freshen up your ignition system.

There are aftermarket camshafts from LROR.

Going into the more custom side of things, a few guys have done quad carby swaps and got around +50% power with exhausts and so on.

Yes, they aren't massive increases but Steve has always been very quick to rubbish anyone spending money on performance outside of a G16b conversion. There's dyno graphs floating around this forum and the internet showing gains over the whole rev range for carby and exhaust swaps. Search it up, Sierras being what they are this has all been done before and discussed plenty.

You won't have many issues with a stock Sierra on the dunes, it's where they're at their best but it's certainly a different driving style to a GQ. Keep an eye on the temperature gauge, G series engines do not like getting hot. Famous for cracking blocks and heads.

[mnemonix]

Having already played this game I wouldn't even bother with power.
Spend your $1000 on having your cooling system inspected and repaired where needed. Service the factory engine. Pull the diff centres, weld them up and refit with some good axle seals and rebuild the front end.

Then drive it like you stole it.

It's only sand. In a light car like a sierra it's all about momentum and wheel speed.
It takes a much bigger budget than your plan allows to increase low RPM torque to a point where it makes a dramatic difference on dunes.

[pezz]

Run with the bottle idea..
50shot and see what happens

[monley]

mnemonix wrote:

Having already played this game I wouldn't even bother with power.
Spend your $1000 on having your cooling system inspected and repaired where needed. Service the factory engine. Pull the diff centres, weld them up and refit with some good axle seals and rebuild the front end.

Then drive it like you stole it.

It's only sand. In a light car like a sierra it's all about momentum and wheel speed.
It takes a much bigger budget than your plan allows to increase low RPM torque to a point where it makes a dramatic difference on dunes.

This.

[5ierra]

wizo4692 wrote:

I have a 351 I was thinking of putting in a swb patrol

1). Put that in the sierra.

You're a fabricator, so making it and the box fit shouldnt be impossible. probably want to strenghten the chassis too.

Few hundred bucks for some lux difs (or patrol of you have some handy), this is just fab work and the cost of the steel again to fit these. Patrol tcase (assuming you have spares sitting around) or no tcase, run it as a RWD.

2). Head to dunes, ask your mate to hold your beer and proclaim "watch this".

3). ?????

4). Profit.

Depends on how much of a job you want to make out of it and how switched on you are.

Would be a fuckin' weapon though. Even with the additional weight. Would have to be trailered though.

[wizo4692]

Ok sweet, starting to get the jist now, so unless Iv got endless pockets and time, just get it running clean, cool, locked and just give her the boot...

5ierra- I think about it nilly every day when I see the motor haha, 351, old c series box, tiny tail shaft and a locked 9" and hope for the best haha but I would be a proper pain and extrem modification to jam it in there and I would be devostated the moment a highway herd it come past haha

Seen a twin cam for sale going cheap but it's also wearing a sticker for no mod plate and I'm not ready for the purchase yet

Cheers everyone for this advice

[Gwagensteve]

I own a 351C. I couldn't imagine a worse motor in a sierra.

The best motor is just enough motor to get the job done. Any more is an exercise in tearing up money and time achieving very little except loud noises and patting yourself on the back for building something that 1000 people in Puerto Rico have done better.

Whilst for sand a GTi motor might be helpful, I wouldn't be too fussed finding one. General condition of the car is far more important.

Remember too that most "off road" mods aren't useful for sand as they'll only add weight which is counterproductive.

[craigtempo]

Get the engine breathing properly ..... extractors .. 2 inch exhaust system .... decent air filter .....tune up ....you should have a bit of change left over .sierra, s arnt known for there speed or horse power ..... they are known because they go anywhere.... are fun to drive and the engine revs hard all day and is reliable.

[vet 180]

Considering what you want to do with the car a GTI motor would be a really good choice. Should be within your budget too (if you do it on the cheap, but I wouldn't I would get a good clutch, new seals etc). If you want more later fabricate a turbo manifold and exhaust and slap on a cheap second hand turbo. The ecu's can be chipped and throw in a camira fuel pump.

Might not be within you budget, but if you do it right you will achieve you goal.

Reasons for GTI engine:
Efi is better in dunes and steep inclines
More power
Easier to upgrade for more power later


Have a good read through here:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=36242

[vet 180]

Another option but also outside your budget is a 4age 4agze. If you do all the fab work yourself might get away with it cheaply, but anything with decent power will be outside your budget

[Gwagensteve]

You've just outlined three options which are well outside the OP's budget.

Steve.

[ozzycouch]

wizo4692 wrote:

fabricator by trade so will be attending to do as much possible on my own.

IMO Build a suck through inlet manifold, no fancy intercooler, second hand amr supercharger, richer needle in carb, change timing. Go till it blows

[wizo4692]

Starting to fall for the idea of Running the standard 1.3 for the time being till I can get together all the gear to go the gti motor (watched to many videos on YouTube lately and I'm defiantly
Feeling a bug coming on)
Then later down the track I also have the option of adding a snail to the situation..

Also Have being sucked into this low range parts website and just wondering are there parts (high compression Pistons, cams,
Rockers blah blah) worth bang for buck? Was very surprised how cheap there pricing is compared to the same style parts in something like an ls1

[wizo4692]

What I was actually trying to ask them, how does the full array of aftermarket parts for the 1.3, carb, extractors, zorst, pistons, cam. Compare to the power different of the gti conversion,

I'm after that snappy quick throttle response kind of power

[mnemonix]

You'll spend more than the cost of a GTI conversion trying to achieve the same power with EFI like delivery.

[vet 180]

wizo4692 wrote:

What I was actually trying to ask them, how does the full array of aftermarket parts for the 1.3, carb, extractors, zorst, pistons, cam. Compare to the power different of the gti conversion,

I'm after that snappy quick throttle response kind of power

I personally would take a stock gti engine instead of an engine equipped with everything you mentioned.

[MrRocky]

Even a stock 1.6 efi will be quicker and nicer to drive than a carb 1.3 with all the gear. The 1.3 carb can make decent power but you have to throw alot of $$$ for close to 1.6 performance