[craigtempo]

I was watching the engine rebuild videos on lowrange today (1-9) and it actually looked very simple .... so im thinking of doing an engine rebuild using all the good bits ( hc pistons ... decent cam ) ...

Question .. is it as easy as it looks .... yes I realsie its setup for the camera but it didnt look that difficult.
I
Reason for the rebuild is I have a grey oily foam comming through the pcv valve into the filter ( could be stuffed oil rings )... and im suspicious of a blown head gasket as there is a tiny amount of oil in tge radiator .
Engine is a g13a ... 87 lwb

[fordem]

I'm guessing this will be your first rebuild - these are simple engines - BUT - there are many little tricks that are rarely documented - chamfering the edge of the cylinder bore (makes it easier to install the pistons), "breaking" the edge of the rings (helps to avoid scoring the bores), hose or tape over the rod bolts (reduces the chance of scoring the crank journals).

My suggestion is that you find an experienced person to guide you through the process, and for what it's worth, I did my first rebuild (a BMC A-series pushrod engine) with only a Haynes manual to guide me

[jdk81]

These engines dont seem to rebuild/recondition well.
The factory stuff is miles better than cheap aftermarket stuff.

You are better off buying a low km replacement.
If you want a power upgrade, convert to efi.

[4x4xzook]

efi conversion hard to do?
been thinking about doing it to my g13b

[fordem]

jdk81 wrote:

These engines dont seem to rebuild/recondition well.
The factory stuff is miles better than cheap aftermarket stuff.

You are better off buying a low km replacement.
If you want a power upgrade, convert to efi.

Buying a low km replacement is like what we in the Caribbean call buying "pig in bag", you never know what you get until after the purchase, there is also nothing preventing you from buying "factory stuff" to do the rebuild, rather than "cheap aftermarket" stuff" - I've done it and been very happy with the outcome, and the only "non SGP" parts in the rebuild were high compression pistons sourced from Low Range Off Road.

The advantage of a rebuild is that you know the condition of the engine and also the quality of the parts and workmanship that went in to it, go the other way, and you have no clue what went on - have you ever, just as an example, pulled a motor down and found cigarette paper (the silver foil) behind the bearing shells - it reduces the clearance, bring up the oil pressure.

[tonyevans]

Well said Fordem - All rebuilds are NOT equal.

[4x4xzook]

"have you ever, just as an example, pulled a motor down and found cigarette paper (the silver foil) behind the bearing shells - it reduces the clearance, bring up the oil pressure."

Holy molly.!!
Thats a whole new level of dodgy

[AckerDackerly]

Adding to the G-series rebuild tips, be very careful when installing the head gasket as it can actually be installed two ways - one of which will cause a blockage on one of the oil passages to the head. Horrible things happen when you install it the wrong way...

From my experience as a Yank, this is an inexpensive engine to have re-built professionally even though they are a bit rare here - compared to 305 and 350 V-8s and 4.3 V-6 engines that you can find practically on any street corner here... If the rebuilder is unsure, he/she can download a copy of the '88 Suzuki Samurai Factory Service Manual for info on rebuilding a G13xx engine. Search fsm at Ack's FAQ (the link is in my signature). BTW it is a free download.

Naturally, your mileage (Km-age?) may vary and some settling may have occurred during shipment...


I hope that this helps!

[ozzycouch]

What I have done in the past;
Get an engine builder to clean, check clearances, machine anything that's out, order in the rebuild kits they use.
Then the rebuild is as simple as most videos you will find on the net.
No point rebuilding anything if the clearances are out, cheap rebuild parts or not.

[jdk81]

+1
It's the measuring and machining which is important coupled with correctly sized good quality parts.
Here that costs quite a lot compared to a low km motor with warranty from you pull it type wreckers (prices starting at $250)

I have seen a few full reco and some rebuilds, and they appear to be a total waste. A "reco" motor, screams stay away.
They just don't seem to last and at $1100 in machining and parts, it seems to be poor value considering that basically buys you a baleno, BenT kit, and all the extras needed to put a baleno motor in a sierra.

Fancy pistons, changing comp ratio, cam work, head work, 98 fuel, advanced timing and all sorts of other crap (some super spark coil, super spark plugs, a weber, bike carbs or some tbi install) seems to not stack up well compared to just finding a decent baleno and whacking that in.

[Gwagensteve]

^this.

I believe these engines ovalise their bores and need to be bored with a deck plate, not given a quick hone and re-ring. I've seen g13's make 260,000 stock yet rebuilt motors are lucky to see out 12 months. I just don't think anyone is willing pay more than the whole car is worth to rebuild a cheap motor

[fordem]

In my case the machinist was suggesting (after measuring) a hone & re-ring, I opted for a re-bore & OS pistons - and yes, the rebuild probably cost more than the car was worth (ie, what I could sell it for), but less than it would have cost to replace - the rebuild was done over 5 years ago, and I'd guess we put around 50,000 miles on it between the rebuild and the accident that rendered the car uneconomical to repair - I'd say I got my money's worth, and if it weren't for that accident, the vehicle would still be in use.

Bottom line is there is nothing inherently wrong with these engines that will cause a rebuilt to fail, but if you want a quality rebuild, you have to be prepared to pay for it, both the parts & the workmanship.

[AckerDackerly]

fordem wrote:

In my case the machinist was suggesting (after measuring) a hone & re-ring, I opted for a re-bore & OS pistons - and yes, the rebuild probably cost more than the car was worth (ie, what I could sell it for), but less than it would have cost to replace - the rebuild was done over 5 years ago, and I'd guess we put around 50,000 miles on it between the rebuild and the accident that rendered the car uneconomical to repair - I'd say I got my money's worth, and if it weren't for that accident, the vehicle would still be in use.

Bottom line is there is nothing inherently wrong with these engines that will cause a rebuilt to fail, but if you want a quality rebuild, you have to be prepared to pay for it, both the parts & the workmanship.

Well put, fordem!

I have a rebuilt 1.6 8-valve with an aftermarket cam - everything else is stock in this engine - in my Samurai that has served well since 2001. There is no way I could ever recoup the investment I have in this vehicle by selling it. Then again, that is not the point in the owning of this vehicle.

If all you are trying to do is to have transportation, then a low-mileage replacement engine from the salvage yard would be the best choice. That or sell it to someone who is a crazy SJ devotee and make it "not your problem" anymore...

[Goldnomad]

ozzycouch wrote:

What I have done in the past;
Get an engine builder to clean, check clearances, machine anything that's out, order in the rebuild kits they use.
Then the rebuild is as simple as most videos you will find on the net.
No point rebuilding anything if the clearances are out, cheap rebuild parts or not.

This is excellent advice. Add to that...all new belts, hoses, overhaul carby etc.

Abd... make sure everything is spotlessly clean.

Good luck

Robert

[craigtempo]

Thanks guys
.part of why ide like to rebuild is because I've never done it before....I could do it at my own pace and use quality parts .dont really want to do an engine swap ...thinking ilbuy a motor to do up .and drive mine till its blown .. then replace with rebuilt motor.....

[craigtempo]

Thanks guys
.part of why ide like to rebuild is because I've never done it before....I could do it at my own pace and use quality parts .dont really want to do an engine swap to gain hp ...i quite like the litle 1.3 motor .thinking ilbuy a motor to do up .and drive mine till its blown .. then replace with rebuilt motor....
I also plan to keep the car for as long as I can (love it ) .... so building up a new motor and using only good quality parts is the way it will be done .yes all the hoses ,and other bits and pieces will be upgraded or replace d as well .

[tonyevans]

Wreckers Warranty = "Yes mate I think it runs - If you install it all and find it is stuffed then remove at your expense and bring it back and we will give you another to try and if that one don't work we will stuff you around until the 3 months is up"

At least if you rebuild you know what you have.

As far as cost is concerned - Do people put 1,000's of dollars into a 20+ year old car that cost stuff all in the first place then drive it on tracks that were not meant for cars and on the salt laden beaches and dunes so they can get their money back a few years later?

[HarryHoudini]

tonyevans wrote:

Wreckers Warranty = "Yes mate I think it runs - If you install it all and find it is stuffed then remove at your expense and bring it back and we will give you another to try and if that one don't work we will stuff you around until the 3 months is up"

Yeah,lots of grubs in the Car Wrecking industry,they know in many cases the part is stuffed when they sell it.Stating the obvious but don't deal with any wrecker that works on an exchange basis.
There was a Wrecker out the back of Parramatta,Sydney, in the 1970's,he had hole cut in the floorpan of a Holden that exposed the gearbox,he would bolt the exchange box on and then when the next sucker came along he would go thru the pantomime of unbolting the box from a wreck,how he lasted as long as he did without getting a beating always puzzled me.

[Reubs]

I'm surprised so many people have dodgy reco engines lasting such a short time. As an example I have a g13ba which has about 200,000km on it since rebuild 10 years ago. The original motor was stuffed after 150k and 6-7 years.

IMO a good rebuild (was well over $2000) 10 years ago and good maintenance go further than any poorly maintained factory engine and let's be honest here how many Baleno owners would be pedantic about servicing?

[Marko_SJ]

I think the issue they are talking about would be spending the money having good work done to an engine that can be had for a few hundred dollars.

Whereas unscrupulous tightarses (sound familiar) would possibly just hone, re ring and call it a rebuild or buy cheap components.

I agree, a used engine is a crapshoot.

[tonyevans]

I have never rebuilt a motor with the old pistons - Both the skirt and ring grooves wear faster than the bores - so even if the bores are good in go new pistons etc.

[Marko_SJ]

tonyevans wrote:

I have never rebuilt a motor with the old pistons - Both the skirt and ring grooves wear faster than the bores - so even if the bores are good in go new pistons etc.

I shall edit my post, it was poorly worded.

[fordem]

tonyevans wrote:

I have never rebuilt a motor with the old pistons - Both the skirt and ring grooves wear faster than the bores - so even if the bores are good in go new pistons etc.

That's an interesting observation - I have a set of G13 pistons pulled from an 8v engine - piston/wall gap was right on the edge of acceptable, and those pistons still have the factory knurl visible over much of the skirt.

I'm actually faced with this very dilemma - I'm about to pull the engine from one of my other (non-Suzuki) vehicles, primarily because of a leaking O ring that I cannot get to without pulling the engine, compression is a tad low, and I'm not certain how much of the oil consumption is due to the leak, how much is valve seals and how much is worn bores/rings - this will most likely happen during early 2016, as the vehicle is drivable, has good power, reasonable economy and apart from a persistent oil leak, is relatively trouble free.

Whilst the engine is out, the plan is to pull the head, clean it up & replace the valve seals - it's a GDI engine, so the intake valve throats will probably have some degree of coking (which is another possible cause of the low compression) - the only reason I have not committed to a full rebuild is the unavailability of quality pistons & rings.

What are my options - should I replace the vehicle - as mentioned previously, the cost of a replacement will far outweigh the cost of repairs, should I buy a used engine, which will probably have some degree of coking in the intake and just drop it in & hope for the best - do I buy a used engine, and before I drop it in, do the timing belt, water pump, seals, O-rings, etc., I've even considered buying a second vehicle, the MPI engined version (for which parts are generally available), to get a useable MPI core, rebuild that and do a swap, which would entail swapping the ECU, harness, etc., etc. etc.. and hoping that I don't run in to too many "electronic" compatability issues - the damn vehicle has 20+ micro controllers, many of which are interlinked.

[tonyevans]

fordem wrote:

I have a set of G13 pistons pulled from an 8v engine - piston/wall gap was right on the edge of acceptable

That seems a little like saying - My tires are on the edge of legal tread so I will leave them on for another 25,000 K's

What I was trying to say was once the engine is on the bench/engine stand in pieces it is only the extra parts cost to do it right and not have to pull it again next year.

[fordem]

tonyevans wrote:

fordem wrote:

I have a set of G13 pistons pulled from an 8v engine - piston/wall gap was right on the edge of acceptable

That seems a little like saying - My tires are on the edge of legal tread so I will leave them on for another 25,000 K's

fordem wrote:

I have a set of G13 pistons pulled from an 8v engine - piston/wall gap was right on the edge of acceptable, and those pistons still have the factory knurl visible over much of the skirt.

My point was that it was the bores that were worn, as evidenced by the factory knurling still being present on the pistons - it's the exact opposite of what you had described.

Quote:

What I was trying to say was once the engine is on the bench/engine stand in pieces it is only the extra parts cost to do it right and not have to pull it again next year.

My thoughts EXACTLY.

[tonyevans]

Maybe someone had already replaced the pistons

[AckerDackerly]

craigtempo wrote:

Thanks guys
.part of why ide like to rebuild is because I've never done it before....I could do it at my own pace and use quality parts

Spoken like a true Zuker!

Anyone can throw down cash and "make it so". Doing it yourself expands your knowledge and your skills.

[fordem]

tonyevans wrote:

Maybe someone had already replaced the pistons

Nope - when I acquired the vehicle it had 42 miles on the odometer.