[Joshyboy26]

Nah patrol with an ls1 cos they flex hektik as!

[Joshyboy26]

Ok another idea.

Anyone against radius arms front and rear?

It seems slightly easier to setup, and gives me factory arms etc.

Im not chasing hektik flex despite my previous post haha and from what ive read vit springs are only good for about 8-10 inches of travel anyway.

Just spit balling but with heavier diffs they should still flex enough and be easier to give a bit of roll stifness to the car without tje need for swaybars?

I was thinking of mounting fronts underneath and rear over the top of the diff for extra clearance?

Whats everyones thoughts?

[J--A--C--K]

Pretty sure g wagons build was running radius arms at one point .

[31zook]

Im pretty sure no matter what anyone says you will do what you want.

[Joshyboy26]

Im open to ideas i just dont want coilovers! Haha

[Gwagensteve]

Joshyboy26 wrote:

Ok another idea.

Anyone against radius arms front and rear?

I'm not, with some "buts"

I ran Piggles with rear radius arms over the diff for some time. The pros were that they were very quick and easy to set up, the car drove very well on road, and had excellent traction offroad due to the very high antisquat radius arm rears have.

However - whilst travel was HUGE, flex wasn't really any better than with an OME rear leaf pack. At the time, this worked quite well with my very limited front flex (front leaves in front, commodore shocks) I did want more flex that early rover arms could provide.

It might be possible to get more flex than I could achieve, but it's not going to be easy. Running the arms inside the chassis rails will hep heaps, so long as there's enough room around the transfer case and between the diff centre and the chassis. Also, that's the area where you want to run a spring, so the whole idea of over the axle and inboard the chassis gets a bit crowded.

In the front, I really think they're the only feasible way to go. I agree that under the axle in the front reduces fitment issues and steering clearance etc.

[Joshyboy26]

Would angling them in the to chassis end help articulation assuming theres room?

Is there any way to calculate the numbers on radius arm like a link calculator is it it just make them fit and do your best?

[Gwagensteve]

Try and get them as flat as possible. I believe you can run the calculator on them, you need to run a 3 link calculator but make the top link the same as the bottom links (I think)

you can mess with the effect of roll centre - that's about the only variable.

Yes, you can play with bringing the chassis end of the arms in, but you'll struggle for room in the rear.

Steve

[Joshyboy26]

Cool thanks! Would you recommend the shocks you are using? Thats my next purchase once i get it all together or are danks bilsteins the go?

Hey dank how much would i be looking at for those bilstein shocks?

[dank]

Depends on the lengths you need mate. Get me some open and closed lengths and we can go from there. Something like Standard length 76 series shocks in Bilstein B6 Offroad I can do for about $250 each, we can valve them to suit your rig as well if you get the appropriate data to us like corner weights, angle of mounting, sprung/unsprung weights etc.

[Joshyboy26]

Ok coolies how much is valving? Or is that included if I tell you before theyre ordered?

I managed to pick up some rover arms, panhard and 4 vit rear springs for 90 bucks from the local u pull it wreckers! It was 35 degrees so called it quits after that haha

Need to go back and sort rear arms but im getting there now i need to add all my weights up and see if i can stay under gvm!

[Gwagensteve]

I run 5125 shocks in the rear and 5150's in the front (which are now discontinued)

I'm very happy with the (as delivered) valving. I think mine are the generic "stiff" valving. (I'll check tomorrow)

5125's are US made Bilsteins sourced through low range, and are such cheaper than the German made versions available locally, but they're not the same quality.

[Joshyboy26]

Ok so more questions its hard to find as people dont bother much with radius arms

Roll centre, due to the arms stiffness do i want this as low as possible to get more movement? Or should i try and keep it up high? I can only really do this through the position of the panhards so it wont be able to change much, but i could get a bit out of them.

I know the front is meant to be lower than the rear correct?
Higher might help with tyre clearance on chassis slightly but not sure i can change it that much

[Gwagensteve]

I'd suggest broadly you want a higher roll centre to "lock out" as much body roll as possible for off road stabilty, however, in the front you'll have almost no scope to move it because he panhard needs to match the length and path of the drag link as closely as possible. I believe mine is as high as feasible.

In the rear you'll have a little more scope depending on bumpstop position and length of panhard you want to run.

I don't believe roll centre will have a substantial effect on outright flex with radius arms.

Steve.

[jonfromhamilton]

How is this build going?

[rustyzook]

Joshyboy26 wrote:

The engineer said a pretty flat out no to increasing the gvm so ill just run with that and go from there, im waiting to hear back about what he says for the rest haha!

The only reason im doing this is i want lux diffs so i can stomp on it without fear of snapping shit all the time. And basically to get it low i need coils as leafs just dont seem to work, they are either good but flog out every few months or are hards as fuck. And i cant really run the spoa without a lot of dicking around.

Apart from that i dont really care. I dont have money for coilovers and really its a zook who cares. My old zook rode grouse with the leaves i had in it and if i can get that level of comfort back again ill be happy.

I agree with the shed time. While i like making shit i certainly dont want to spend years trying to build something that costs tonnes that i drive 10 timea a year.

Haven't read past this comment yet, however before you go chopping a rare LWB and trying to do it on the cheap, why don't you take a step back and see what you can do on the cheap without hacking the car to bits. Eg

1. G16b, if you want auto, you can get the adaptor plate to take Sierra jack shaft
2. WT Sierra diffs with chromos
3. 6.5 reductions with rock toy ring
4. Some form of suspension lift like EFS 2"
5. 31-33s
6. Drive it and have fun
7. Look at all the fucking around you just saved your self.

All this is pretty well bolt in and is proven. In a LWB that would make a pretty good car both on and off road.

I just can't see throwing all that money at the car just because you have some parts, but then not spending more money to make it work with the correct parts to Mach some random parts you have a good idea. It sounds like another project that will end up in the scrap yard in 6-12 months and a total waste of a LWB Sierra.

But that's just my 2c worth.


Edit: didn't check the dates.... Is it at the scrap yard yet?

[Gwagensteve]

I think you might want to pull your head in a touch. This car is almost complete, fabricated to a high standard, and well conceived.

Steve.

[rustyzook]

Gwagensteve wrote:

I think you might want to pull your head in a touch. This car is almost complete, fabricated to a high standard, and well conceived.

Steve.

Nah, my heads fine thanks.

If it has been done and to a high standard that's good. And I would really like to see the car completed. The reason with my comment is I've just seen too many builds start with "I have this and this so let's make it work" then it ends up in the scrap heap, frig I've done it my self with various projects when I was younger.

Anyway if it is build how about some updates, did he end up with coil overs or not? How did it all play out and how is it going to drive? Is it going to be road legal or a trail buggy?

[31zook]

Gwagensteve wrote:

This car is almost complete, fabricated to a high standard, and well conceived.

Steve.

Oooo, pics?

[Gwagensteve]

Car is engineer approved.

It was a rotting mess in a shed on a farm. The cab was rough as guts. (something fell on it) If its not original, it's not original. Maybe a suzuki driveline floats your boat, maybe a 20V floats his boat. An engineer approved car with a 20V and bundera/hilux diffs is better than an unengineered car running a G16B and 33's, because it isn't going in the scrap bin if it gets a defect, and once it's cut up for an AW-4 and big tyres it's "rarity" is irrelevant.

Josh didn't end up with coilovers.

I have seen the car and provided some build advice. It's not an unfinished project. It's being built by someone with experience and access to space, tools, and resources to complete it, which, as I said, it nearly is. Yes, I have seen lots of unfinished projects too, but this isn't one, regardless of whether you like the build direction or not.

The 20V has been converted to remove the rear distributor and the sump modified to clear the axle. engine position is sweet. Whilst the 3 speed auto is probably still the weak link in his setup, building the engine around a LWB will allow him sufficient room for an AW-4 or alternative longer auto should that become an option later on, a choice that wasn't available when this driveline was in his previous SWB.

[Joshyboy26]

Sorry i should do a build thread but adding pics to pb then to here tires me.

The chassis and suspension is pretty well finished, ive fixed the cab good enough to get glass in/through a roady. (Itll get an exo anyway)

Gaurds and front clip are close to finished and dovenosed 70mm each side.

I went with radius arms front and rear for ease.

I am researching and goi g to aim to jam a 4 spd in behind the 20v for coolness but it will screw with me engine position.

Yes i will finish it.

No it wont have a g16b

No it wont have 33s

Fuck the haters

[Joshyboy26]

Add me on facey for pics josh hollyoak.

I will endeavor to write a build up on here at some point

[Gwagensteve]

Sorry for speaking on your behalf but I needed to respond to the hater.

[Joshyboy26]

Haha no worries steve cheers

[Marko_SJ]

AZ bringz teh pwnd.

[rustyzook]

Haha I'm not a hater, im quite glad to hear you have stuck with it and have done it all to a high level. Just sounded like another one that would be started and not finished. You have no idea how glad I am to hear this is not the case!

You really should do a build thread it would be interesting to see how it's all come together!
4age right? I had a Sierra years ago with a 4age and didn't really rate it, however it was still on Sierra diffs so you should be fine with hilux diffs which I'm guessing is why you are running them. What tc are you running? And what gearing?
How much bigger is the AW4?

I'd look on Facebook but I don't use it sorry, I am looking forward to you build thread however!

[Gwagensteve]

The 4AGE 20V came out of a Sierra running WT axles with 34's and 4.57 gears. The driveline was quite reliable. I think the key was running an automatic, which softened the power delivery at the wheels.

[rustyzook]

Yeah I went back and read it again, I agree the auto would make a world of difference, the 4age with a manual was pretty annoying, the guy I sold it to said he split the rear drive shaft in half in 2 days, never showed me, just bitched at me about it for a while. I only had it for about a month and that was more than enough. It had plenty of power, I didn't do the swap I bought it done as well, so I would have done a few things differently if I had of done the swap.

[Gwagensteve]

As did Josh- bought a complete conversion, but he's optimising the install (by, for example, getting the engine up against the firewall.