[vanlinx]

Hi All,

I just replaced my jimny with a Grand Vitara Prestige.

just a few questions for the pros in this forum

Tyres
The wheels are 17 inch rims. What is the largest size tyres I can get to fit stock suspension. What is the best affordable size and brand please.
Though in next 6 months plan to get the 4wd1 ironman 40mm kit which may entice to get larger tyres now.

Bull bar
Will the ARB bar fit this car? the ARB website says that it wont fit a prestige GV...not sure why. Does anyone have further experience in this?
The other option is an XROX bar. I heard bad things about them. Would they survive a roo or (even a car reversing into it)

Recover points
ARB bar comes with the 2 recovery holes
Does XROX have the same?
Are there any other recovery items to buy which bolt to the ladder frame without any drilling works?

Cheers,
Van

[Marck]

Tyres - buy 16 inch wheels 245 75 16 seems to be the favourite size. Not sure if the will fit under stock height.

The ARB bar is only excluded by having hid headlights with washers.

Front recovery points for the NGV are an issue. I still haven't worked out a solution for mine. Not even sure if having the points attached to a bar will be strong enough. I was going to do the same but I have been put off buy people's comments on weather the way bars mount will be strong enough. So I am interested in what others have to say about this .

[steve125]

245/75 16 or 245/70 17 are the biggest tyres that will fit, lift or not. The horizontal width of the wheel well is what restricts NGV tyre size, lift doesn't make the wheel well bigger.

BFG KM2, Mickey Thompson ATZ P3 or MTZ are good brands and models, but expensive. If you get a second set of rims for just offroading, maybe get Federal Couragias, cheaper, good offroad but wear faster. Ask the local Suzuki dealer if they have any steel rims from when someone upgrades the OEMs for alloys.

The front rhs tow point is OK for light recoveries, mine was never so stuck it needed a full power snatch recovery.

[zooks4life]

What steve said x2

[vanlinx]

Hi Steve,
so to confirm, 245/70/17 or 245/75/16 will fit with the stock height of the NGV.

Would there be any scrub at full lock and flex?

I can only afford new rims and tyres now. Need to wait a while for the rest of the other mods.

Thanks,
Van

[zooks4life]

If you look at my build thread when I 1st bought my car it was running 245 75 16 with no lift with only minor scrubbing at full lock. You can trim the inner wheel well plastic to help. Obviously all depends on offset as well.

[Marck]

The ATZ P3 are loud on the road much like a mud tyre. But apart from that are good. You will also need to drop preasures on sand more than you do with a normal AT because of how stiff the side wall is. Shop,around you should pick up a set of 16 inch stock wheels for about 150 give or take.

One more tip is don't get sunscreen on the leather my back seats look like a panda bear after a trip to Fraser.

[vanlinx]

So there's not a huge performance difference between a 17 inch and a 16 inch rim right?

I have a 17 inch rim at the moment and not really keen on spending cash to get a 16 inch. (plus no space to store the spare rims anywhere in my unit)

Stuff I intend to tackle - zig zag style off roading with 4wd clubs etc.

[Gwagensteve]

I'm not sure whether you'd describe it as "huge" but yes, there is a performance difference, and it will favour the 16" rim. More sidewall height means there's more sidewall to deform, so the tyre can conform to the terrain better, adding traction. The taller sidewall means you can run lower pressure, further improving traction.

More sidewall means the rims are further away from the ground, meaning less chance of rim damage and less chance of getting debris in the bead

Many years ago Petersen's published a rule of thumb on rim sizing, and I think it's still a useful guide - you want no more than 1/2 the height of the tyre in rim size, so a 30" tyre= 15" rim, 32" tyre 16" rim, 34" tyre for 17" rim etc.

I'd suggest it still holds true for offroad performance.

I'm aware of your dilemma in relation to storing a second set of tyres, and everything we do with our cars is always a compromise, but still, there's your answer in relation to performance and sidewall height.

[vanlinx]

perfect, thanks for your advice.

[vanlinx]

an update to this...

so I read heaps of forums etc and can't conclude about rubbing issues.

Some threads suggest 245/70/17 will 100% rub with or without lift and needs the mudguard heatshrunk?!

245/75/16 will not rub at all with lift

So my stock 17" rims are 45 offset I think. When I get 16" rims, I also need to maintain the similar offset? Or better asked what is the best rim offset for this 245/75/16 tyre.

Alternatively what is the next largest tyre size down which eliminates mudguard rubbing?

Cheers guys.

[Gwagensteve]

So your options are
buy a set of 16" rims and sell your 17's
Buy a second set of 16's you can't store anywhere
heatshrink a mudguard

Suspension lift doesn't have anything to do with fitting tyres. This is true of every car ever, regardless of how many posts you read to the contrary. It's a myth.*

I do believe that 245/70/17's have a tiny bit of contact with an inner guard or something insignificant. No reason to step down to smaller tyres that I can see - the contact isn't damaging to the car or the tyres.

You want stock offset if you're buying other rims. 245 75 16's go on stock 16" rims, so that's what you'd want. Messing with offset on IFS/IRS cars is fraught, and it's also likely to worsen any potential rubbing.

* I'll expand on this. Lift springs generally have a higher rate (they're stiffer) in order to maintain the higher ride height. Let's say your car has 6" of suspension travel, and at stock height you have 3" up and 3" down. the new springs, if they provide 2" of lift, mean your new suspension stroke is 5" up and 1" down. Sure, sitting on the driveway at home makes it look like there's miles of room for the bigger tyres, but flex the car up hard, or worse, bounce or jump it, and the wheel moves the full 5" upwards into the guard and causes whatever havoc it would have caused with no lift.

Where some of the myth comes from is that these stiffer springs are stiff enough they prevent full wheel travel in normal conditions, so instead of 5" up and 1" down, you might have 4" up and 1" down. You've lost 1" of wheel travel in normal use - light offroad and road driving- and the tyres seem to clear fine. However, just wait for that bounce and you're back to the world of hurt you would have had before the lift.

Hope that helps.

Steve.

[steve125]

BFG KM2 245/75 16 = 774mm diameter

BFG KM2 245/70 17 = 776mm diameter

My Maxxis Bighorn 245/75 16s were slightly undersize and did not scrub. There was a small (5mm x 30mm?) scuff where, at full lock, some stone guard paint was removed from inside the guard.

You won't find any +45 offset rims unless you get some second hand genuine Suzuki ones. Most aftermarket rims will be +25, seemed to work OK on another club members car, but +45 would be best.

16 inch is better than 17 but in your application I doubt you would notice a difference.

225/75 is the next size down, not worth while.

Just get some 245/70 17s and sell your road tyres on gumtree.

[Marck]

Other option could be 245 70 16. Same rolling diameter as the 225 70 17 just wider and you get about 13 mm more in the side wall and 20 mm wider but from what I could understand didn't reduce the effectiveness of low range gearing.

Also never found the upper bump stops or guard with the lift and these tyres but I quite often find the limit at full extension when I get a little light going over bumps on the beach.

[vanlinx]

I found some 16 inch stock steelies =)

That said I am a bit paranoid about legalities and insurances. (I believe probably 100% of lifted vehicles on this forum with bigger tyres are illegal)

Reading that

VSI6 http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/documents/roa ... ations.pdf

* Altering vehicle ride height by more than one third of the manufacturer’s suspension
travel in the direction of the ride height change.

Unsure what this is or how to find this out. I assume this is the max travel of the shocks until it hits the shock bump stop?

* Replacement of tyres that change tyre overall diameter by more than 7% of the overall
original diameter

Original 225/65/17 = 724.3mm
245/75/16 = 773.9mm = 6.8% additional - complies
245/70/16 = 749.4mm = 3.5% additional - complies

Reason for this is in case of an accident, I understand insurance wont cover if you crash into an expensive car.... (i.e. a rolls royce or something)

VSI6 doesn't say anything about 50mm maximum NSW legal total lift.

Any insights? Or has anyone ever got booked by a copper with a yellow sticker? I think its more likely to occur on a jimny because the car is so small and any big lift is clearly notable. But on the GV it would be less notable...

[Built4thrashing]

Base modls came with 225/70/16 tyres on Steel rims.

A 225/75/16 will correct your speedo to within 1-2kmms.
Biggest i would recomend is a 245/75/16. thats about a 31 in the old scale and is about 2 inches bigger than factory.

Run stock tyres for daily use. and bolt the bigger offroad tyres on when going bush.... then your legal 90% of the time

[GrandVitarasRock]

Built4thrashing wrote:

Base modls came with 225/70/16 tyres on Steel rims.

A 225/75/16 will correct your speedo to within 1-2kmms.
Biggest i would recomend is a 245/75/16. thats about a 31 in the old scale and is about 2 inches bigger than factory.

Run stock tyres for daily use. and bolt the bigger offroad tyres on when going bush.... then your legal 90% of the time

I had a 2011 Ssangyong Actyon shit box before the Grand Vitara and it had the same 225/70/16 tyres on it and my speedo was under by about 7 k's an hour. I ended up putting 235/80/R16 on it and the speedo was fixed instantly - perfect match to 3 different GPS apps and devices. And it also gave me a good 1 inch extra clearance underneath the low slung Actyon ute.

The Actyon died a month after I spent $700 on those tyres so I'm taking them off and putting them on the Vitara now instead. They measure 782.4mm / 30.8 inches overall diametre. The factory tyres are 721.4mm or 28.5 inches......now under current NSW RTA law - technically I can go up to 30.5 inches or 772 mm's so I think I can just squeeze it in legally.

My question is ( A 2 inch lift kit is on the cards in the [ hopefully ] near future ) will these 30.8 inch tyres fit in under the guards without scrubbing to the poo house until I get the lift sorted ?

I've read a few mixed reviews - some say no drama - some say problems.............

I mainly want to fit these to the Vitara because -
1) - I'm not throwing them out with the Ssangyong when the wreckers come knocking
2) - I'm trying to get a little lift underneath the cross member and exhaust as it has ( and does ) rub on a few tracks we go on.

I'm not into lifting wheels 4WD Action style, nor breaking CV's while banging my chest King Kong style to prove a point - I have a mortgage LOL so we generally do some of the rougher national park type tracks, Barrington Tops, the Watagans, Turon National park etc however I'm always mindful of where the lowest point under vehicle is and also because the towbar does hang a little too low for my liking and has caused the anderson plug to pull out on a couple of occasions leaving my camper trailer / fridge not charging !

I have 17 inch Ford Territory alloys on the camper ( where on it when I bought it ) however I have already got a set of 16 inch Rav 4 wheels ( which look almost identical so they all match - cool ! ) to go on it with some nice mud terrains maybe. Once the Vitara is lifted and depending on how the trailer then sits behind it, I may do ( only if really warranted ) a leaf / axle flip to the trailer. Would be handy anyway as I'm 6 foot 3 and evberytime I lift the rear canopy glass, I bang my head on it LOL so it would save me ducking every time I go to my fridge !

Any help and comments greatly appreciated

[HamiHarr]

GrandVitarasRock wrote:

I ended up putting 235/80/R16 on it.

They measure 782.4mm / 30.8 inches overall diametre. The factory tyres are 721.4mm or 28.5 inches......now under current NSW RTA law - technically I can go up to 30.5 inches or 772 mm's so I think I can just squeeze it in legally.

My question is ( A 2 inch lift kit is on the cards in the [ hopefully ] near future ) will these 30.8 inch tyres fit in under the guards without scrubbing to the poo house until I get the lift sorted ?

I've read a few mixed reviews - some say no drama - some say problems.............


Any help and comments greatly appreciated

I run 225/75 R16s on my GV, so I cannot give you direct experience. The 235/80s you mention is an uncommon tyre size from what I can tell, and I've not encountered discussion of it in my internet wanderings.

That said, assuming the offset of the rims remains stock, then a limiting factor of bigger tyres is width. 235/80 is of course 10mm narrower than the 245, so you are good there, but is a bit taller overall (about 7mm from what I cant tell, which shouldn't make a difference, but it might somewhere, and exact measurements depend on the specific tyre).

With regards to largest increase in tyre size legally - I believe it is based on the largest tyre that came with the model. Because a model may have different specs with different wheels (16" steelies, 17" alloys, 18" alloys), the actual tyre size with a model can vary from factory. For instance, my JB GV came stock with 225/70 16s (721mm diam), but I think the largest stock diameter released on a JB GV is 225/60 18 (726mm diam) - not much difference, but interesting.

[GrandVitarasRock]

Yeah the 235/80/R16 isn't a common size as you said, however that's the tyre I tracked down when I needed to increase the overall size on the old car I had.

I ended up finding this size in a Kendra All Terrain and they;re pretty well priced too. $ 660 for 4 of them fitted & balanced.
There's actually a cool site which has a tyre comparison feature - https://tiresize.com/comparison/
It's great because you can put in the different sizes and it visually shows you the difference.

The two pics I have here show the 225/75/R16 on the left and the taller tyre on the right being the 235/80/R16

I'm pretty sure I should be right with the 235/80 because it's only 1.5 inches ( 38mm ) taller in overall height.

I'll see how I go........I guess if I fit them and they're too big, then I can justify a lift kit LOL !

[Gwagensteve]

Remember, a “lift kit” has nothing to do with fitting bigger tyres. A number of people have already mentioned this is this very thread.

[G34]

You could source a set of Rav4 16" alloys. Same offset and spigot. I have a set
of mudgrips on these for offroading. You'll need to use 12mm x 1.25 lug nuts with washers
rather than the standard Suzuki ones.

[fordem]

G34 wrote:

You'll need to use 12mm x 1.25 lug nuts with washers rather than the standard Suzuki ones.

Why? All of the Rav4 rims I've seen were lug centric, as are all of the Suzuki rims I've looked at - lug nuts need to be matched to the rim - tapered nuts on lug centric rims, shanked nuts with flat washers are for hub centric rims.

[GrandVitarasRock]

Gwagensteve wrote:

Remember, a “lift kit” has nothing to do with fitting bigger tyres. A number of people have already mentioned this is this very thread.

That's not necessarily true......a lift kit gives you more clearance under the guards over standard height suspension which therefore in turn allows larger wheels and / or tyres to be fitted without them scrubbing the guards and suspension on full turns and heavy articulation when off road.

[got_bar_work]

More clearance under the guards from a lift means nothing. U could drive around with no coils and fit the same size tire as u can if u have 6in lift. Its clearance when ur hard on the bump stops that matters. Don't matter how much lift u have. Sooner or later ur going to find the upper limits of travel offroad. On a solid axle, longer shocks from a lift can make it tuck more on flex. That will decrease the size tire u can run before it rubs.

[Gwagensteve]

Why is this so hard for people to understand?

[GrandVitarasRock]

got_bar_work wrote:

U could drive around with no coils and fit the same size tire as u can if u have 6in lift. Its clearance when ur hard on the bump stops that matters. Don't matter how much lift u have.

That is absurd ! If you drove around with no coils on 37 inch tyres, they would be scrubbing the sh*t out of the inside top of the guards however if you lifted it, then you would have clearance between the tread and the guards ....... "Why is this so hard for people to understand?"

I agree with you regarding the upper limits of travel etc and I know that's why you see some 80 series Cruisers set up for max' flex with 6 inch coils and 12 inch shocks etc, but your theory of driving with no coils - it just doesn't cut the mustard sorry champ.

[greyghost]

cause facebook tells them this crap

[Technotron101]

Honestly I'm not sure there's any other way to explain this...

Let's say your suspension resting position is at a point where the top of your tyre is sitting, say, 100mm from the guard.

Now install a 50mm lift... You have reset your resting position to where your tyre is now 150mm away from the guard. Now if you think this gives you 50mm more room to run bigger tyres, then sure... At resting position.. Now drive over an obstacle that cross axles your vehicle and causes that wheel to flex up 50mm. Now that tyre that didn't fit before is in the same position as before... And consequently still not fitting.

Just because you have reset your resting position does not mean that your vehicle will never flex to a point where clearance was the same as before... Unless you extend your bumpstops to a point where you have absolutely no compression travel (which is absurd) you will run into exactly the same clearance issues as before. It's that simple, and has been mentioned before.

The only things that will allow fitting of larger tyres - read: gaining more room for larger tyres - are:

Bumpstop spacing - so the wheel cannot come up as far into the guard - lift or no lift.
Body lift - physically moving the body and thus guards further away from where the tyre can reach
Virtual lift - cutting pieces of the guard out, so that there is no longer any material there for the tyre to scrub on.

This is not complicated.

[fordem]

GrandVitarasRock wrote:

That is absurd ! If you drove around with no coils on 37 inch tyres, they would be scrubbing the sh*t out of the inside top of the guards

There would be no scrubbing - IF the bump stops were extended.

Sure it sounds ridiculous, and no-one is going to attempt it, but, the point is that no matter how much lift you have, if the bump stops are not extended the tire will move up to it's previous location and scrub.

[GrandVitarasRock]

Technotron101 wrote:

Let's say your suspension resting position is at a point where the top of your tyre is sitting, say, 100mm from the guard.

Now install a 50mm lift... You have reset your resting position to where your tyre is now 150mm away from the guard. Now if you think this gives you 50mm more room to run bigger tyres, then sure... At resting position.. Now drive over an obstacle that cross axles your vehicle and causes that wheel to flex up 50mm. Now that tyre that didn't fit before is in the same position as before... And consequently still not fitting.

Just because you have reset your resting position does not mean that your vehicle will never flex to a point where clearance was the same as before... Unless you extend your bumpstops to a point where you have absolutely no compression travel (which is absurd) you will run into exactly the same clearance issues as before. It's that simple, and has been mentioned before.

I get what you're saying however I'm not planning on flexing the shit out of my vehicle that much anyway, I mainly wanted to put slightly bigger tyres on and possibly the 2 inch lift to allow me some extra room underneath so low bits aren't scraping every time I do go off road. Are there body lifts for these Vitara's that you know of - just curious ?

It's funny how you say that facebook says you can do it etc........however speak to and watch any industry expert in the 4x4 game and EVERYONE of them says, including suspension experts that make a living out of doing lift kits and upgrades, and they all say that you should do a lift kit first of all so you can fit bigger tyres on.......... bigger foot print off road so less stress and strain and less wheels off the ground.

I do believe they would know their stuff.

I'll keep doing some more research.

Cheers