[andrew]

Hi i want a way of unlocking my hubs without getting in and out of the car all the time.

yes i this is because i welded the front diff...sorry steve..i had to try it anyways.

[Kor3y101]

Short answer; It's not worth it. There is too much stuffing around for an inferior(reliability wise) way of locking the hubs.
Possibly work those arms out more so it's easier to turn?

I'm sure someone will respond with a more technical answer soon.

[Gwagensteve]

Lets hope this thread comes up next time someone searches for welding the front.

As an aside, I don't believe auto hubs would reliably fix the problem. They only unlock when they have no torque being applied by the axle, but that's not always going to be the case, because with a welded diff if there's any bind across the front end (such as if there's a difference in wheel speed due to a slight turn etc) there will still be some load on the hub, so it won't unlock.

[rustyzook]

Vitara or jimny power steering is your friend. I have an auto locker in the front and it's fine with power steering, it was fine in my old suzukis without power steering also.

I'm guessing you want to unlock because your steering is heavy?

[Gwagensteve]

Or it won't go around a corner, or to pinballs all over the place on slick surfaces, or you're sick of doing 5649574 point turns

[sideways]

Unknown to him, a friend bought a patrol with a welded front diff that had a gutted auto locking hub (internals removed, actually found them in the centre console). We suspected they did this for the reason Steve says, the hubs wouldn't unlock under load. He chucked them and replaced them with some conventional free wheeling hubs.

FWIW the GQ really was quite good to drive with the welded front diff, it steered fine. We did a 2 days in Brunswick with it and tried unlocking a hub on a switchback type thing but found it made no noticeable difference to turning circle anyway. We spent the rest of the time with both hubs locked.

[greenzook89]

Throwing my 2 cents into the ring, I've driven a few vehicles with welded/spooled front diffs, all have had power steer and they have not been hard to turn. All have run 31s. You definitely do notice understeer in the front end on a slippery surface but I didnr find it unbearable.


I honestly believe you need to look at your terrain and if its tight and slippery maybe a permanently locked front isnt for you.

[rustyzook]

Gwagensteve wrote:

Or it won't go around a corner, or to pinballs all over the place on slick surfaces, or you're sick of doing 5649574 point turns

Over exaggerating much? Mine turns fine, and I have no issues on slick surfaces.

greenzook89 wrote:

Throwing my 2 cents into the ring, I've driven a few vehicles with welded/spooled front diffs, all have had power steer and they have not been hard to turn. All have run 31s. You definitely do notice understeer in the front end on a slippery surface but I didnr find it unbearable.


I honestly believe you need to look at your terrain and if its tight and slippery maybe a permanently locked front isnt for you.

The last point is a good one, Steve and I have had this same conversation in a few threads now, I really don't notice mine, I did a little in the non power steering Sierra, however it was still pretty good to drive! 31zook runs spools in Edna without power steering and his comments are quite similar to mine, sierras are quite easy to turn with a locked front, power steering helps but you can live without it.

I've never had mine in a spot where I wished I could unlock the front or noticed my self doing a "5649574" turn. And that's not from lack of trying.

[greenzook89]

Edna has Jimny PS fitted so it turns easy as.

[Gwagensteve]

It has consistently driven people who have tried welded fronts here in Vic insane, power steer or not. That's across a range of tyre sizes and vehicles.

My own car is a complete nightmare to turn with the front locker in. Yes, it does, sort of, turn eventually, but on low traction surfaces the turning radius blows out so far the car is close to unusable. Steering effort (Vitara power steering) increases markedly as does the self centring.

I'm not sure how many people have driven a car with a welded front side by side with a car with an open front or air locked front. I think like most things, you can convince yourself "it's not that bad" or live with the compromise, but I just reckon they drive terribly and I've not come across anything that's changed that opinion.

[greenzook89]

Ive driven mine with open centre and hopped straight into Edna with a spooled front. Yes I could notice the difference in steering response (not so much effort), where we were driving it was not bad but I have no doubt in the slick Vic terrain that Gwagen drives it would bring the suck.

[Gwagensteve]

It's also the way the car follows cambers on slick surfaces. The car might be able to travel at, lets say, 30km/h, (and/or need to to maintain momentum) but with a welded front, the car will just sniff out every camber and that frequently just pulls the car into the bank/drain.

Yes, on high traction surfaces the disadvantages are much less noticeable. Making all the easy stuff hard between the hard bits is the problem.

[BlueSuzy]

I only switch off my front locker to give the powersteering pump and belt a break. Its a delight to steer otherwise. G16b + Falcon teardrop/Saginaw + IFS surf box + Lux front diff + 35"8psi + 15x8 -19offset

There is a lot of variables with mods if a car steers good or not.

[Gwagensteve]

Obviously with a panhard my car doesn't have any lateral axle movement, so I'm not loosing steering through that unlike leaf sprung cars.

Maybe this is new SPOA? Works fine in NSW and does't work in Vic?

I genuinely can't make the car do what I want with the front locker in.

[BlueSuzy]

Gwagensteve wrote:

Maybe this is new SPOA? Works fine in NSW and does't work in Vic?

I genuinely can't make the car do what I want with the front locker in.

I've tried the locker onroad once, It didn't do what i wanted it to do

It would be good to get all cars on the same terrain one day and compare.

[rustyzook]

I'm not arguing that locked front is amazing everywhere, as I have said many times, it may not work for you where you are, but I have no worries with it, I don't really notice it and the turning circle is just as good as my stock 1ltr. Where I am it works just fine and I am really quite happy with it and don't see the need to spend $1500 on a front air locker when the Auto works just fine and has out lasted the 2 rear arb air lockers, hopefully the new style are stronger because if it fails again it will be spooled.

As for Edna having power steering I didn't realise that, when I was talking to Josh about it he said he has no dramas and spools were fine power steering or not.

BlueSuzy where you in Tamworth a few weeks back? I saw a Suzuki like yours on a trailer out the front of maccas.

[BlueSuzy]

No Rusty, wasn't me!