[30ONA]

Does anyone know the measurement from the ground to the to of the wheel arch front and back for the factory height? Preferably from a manual nut measured from a stock car as Mau have sagged.

The previous owner has played with the suspension so I want to know where it's sitting.

[Gwagensteve]

There is (was?) a resource on the vicroads website where standard vehicle heights were published. I haven't used it myself but it was quite handy. Could be worth a search.

I'm not sure where the idea coil sprung cars "sag" appreciably comes from.

Steve.

[30ONA]

Sag, fatigue, loose elasticity, relax, squash, you know what I mean.

[30ONA]

Basically if I already have lift I will just replace the worn shocks with appropriate ones but need to know what length to get.

[Gwagensteve]

30ONA wrote:

Sag, fatigue, loose elasticity, relax, squash, you know what I mean.

Yes, I know what sag means. I'm saying it's basically impossible on a coil sprung vehicle running within factory parameters.

The only coil springs that "sag" are the stupid Calmini Vitara suspension kit springs. They sag because the springs bind at full compression.

Quote:

Basically if I already have lift I will just replace the worn shocks with appropriate ones but need to know what length to get.

This is the #1 suspension myth. There is no such thing as a shock for a certain lift height.

If the shock mounts are standard and the bumpstops are in the factory locations, you can only ever fit standard length shocks - that's because the collapsed length of the shock must be the same as factory.

Yes, there are some small variations depending on shock construction and how much safety margin the shock manufacturer is willing to eat up, but any shock from any bolt in kit will work. Some shocks packaged with "lift kits" (a term I hate) in fact have less travel than the standard shocks.

Of course the watertight way to buy the right shock length is to replace what is there by measuring the collapsed and extended length.... assuming what's in there is correct.

Steve.

[atari4x4]

[30ONA]

So with an unknown set up and needing new shocks, what do you suggest? Keeping in mind I don't want to get a whole new set of springs if I already have a lift. How can I determine if the srings are higher than stock and by how much?

[Chris.L]

30ONA wrote:

So with an unknown set up and needing new shocks, what do you suggest? Keeping in mind I don't want to get a whole new set of springs if I already have a lift. How can I determine if the srings are higher than stock and by how much?

Find a standard car around town and park next to it to compare?

[atari4x4]

why not download the PDF i attached

[30ONA]

atari4x4 wrote:

why not download the PDF i attached

I didn't realise it was an attachment. I saw the emoticon and skimmed over sorry.

[30ONA]

atari4x4 wrote:

:thefinger:

Thanks that's exactly what I was after.

[Gwagensteve]

I'm not sure you're picking up what I'm putting down 30ONA.

Your setup isn't "unknown" because unless actual fabrication work has been done to the chassis, or bumpstop spacers have been fitted, any shock specified for a 2004 GV will fit and work.

If this work has been carried out, the static height of the vehicle STILL isn't relevant, only the compressed length of the shocks fitted is relevant, because that's the only measurement which is relevant when choosing shocks for a custom application.

however, I'm 99.9% sure you don't have a custom application, you just have a stock GV. It might have aftermarket springs in it, which isn't relevant., which still brings us back to....

The static height of the suspension has no bearing on the choice of shock. Really, it doesn't.

[30ONA]

I get what you're saying. I can use what ever shock I want. At the same time I want to know what height my springs are.

[30ONA]

Ok so I have about 55mm lift in the rear and 23mm on the front. This makes sense as I also have a tow bar so the previous owner may have set it up for towing.
So if I get new front springs another 25mm higher the car will sit level.
Next step if I keep the bump stops standard my shock compression is the same as stock. But if I want 25'm taller tyres I should fit 25'm longer bump stops to keep the factory clearance, but this may not be required depending on clearance.

What limits the extension?

[Grags]

300NA you would probably only want to extend the bump stops if there's a problem with larger tyres rubbing the guards
Or if for some reason the different springs manage to fully compress themselves before the bump stop can do it's job

As for extension, you mean what limits how much the suspension can drop?
usually it's the shock absorber (good) but if the shockies are too long then it's other parts like brake lines, cables, breather hose, (not good)

[Grags]

Buy the way
ummmm the PDF from Atari states 'minimum' eyebrow height, it does not really specify what the standard wheel arch/eyebrow measurement is.
One of my vits is a (definitely) stock 1993 wagon and it’s got some stuff the back atm that I estimate to be 120-140kg, the eyebrow height is 445mm (measured as per the instructions in the PDF), and the PDF says 420mm. 25mm difference and my car has a load in it so.. not really sure about that PDF

[30ONA]

Given the angle of the CV's I think I'll sick with the current springs and just renew the shocks and get camber bolts.

[Grags]

Sounds good, you can always find tune the suspension heights with some compression rubber anyway
Clark Rubber sells it in varying thicknesses up to 6mm which doesn't sound like much but especially in the front it'll make a difference of more than that
all you need is an electric jigsaw and there you have it, cheap too

[30ONA]

Got a quote for top dog dampers and camber bolts for 640 supply only. How does that sound?

[30ONA]

Grags wrote:

Sounds good, you can always find tune the suspension heights with some compression rubber anyway
Clark Rubber sells it in varying thicknesses up to 6mm which doesn't sound like much but especially in the front it'll make a difference of more than that
all you need is an electric jigsaw and there you have it, cheap too

What do you mean fine tune? Where do you put the rubber? In the spring seat?

[fordem]

Gwagensteve wrote:

Yes, I know what sag means. I'm saying it's basically impossible on a coil sprung vehicle running within factory parameters.

The only coil springs that "sag" are the stupid Calmini Vitara suspension kit springs. They sag because the springs bind at full compression.

Steve.

A few years back I acquired a used Mitsubishi Pajero iO with a number of issues, in particular, it appeared to have a mind of it's own where steering was concerned - it would go in the general direction in which you pointed it, but at times it would pull left, other times, right - it was noticeable in the angle at which the wheel had to be held to get the car to drive straight ahead.

After some head scratching it was noticed that the camber on the front wheels was different from one side to the next, and the suspension was investigated, new bushings, new ball joints, none of which had any effect on the camber or the wandering, and then one day quite by chance I noticed the angle of the front control was different from side to side - the iO has MacPherson strut front suspension and the problem was that the front springs were tired and sagging.

As the body of the iO (it's monocoque construction) went down on the right side, the inner pivot of the control arm went down, the arm moved closer to the horizontal, pushing the bottom of the wheel out, making the camber more negative, the amount of sag and negative camber varied as the vehicle moved up and down, and so did the pull in the steering.

It took me a year to track down a new pair of OE Mitsubishi springs, and when I put them alongside the old ones, they matched - open length, wire diameter, number of turns and paint splotch color - what was different apart from the dirt was the "strength" of the spring - I did not measure it and cannot specify a number in terms of lbs/inch - but I was able to hold the springs in my hands - two or three turns between middle finger & thumb of both hands, one hand on either side, and squeeze them, and the older driver side spring was noticeably softer than it's replacement.

The only parts changed to resolve that problem were the springs and the strut boot (new struts were needed, but were not available).

Coil sprung vehicle, with no suspension modifications, OE springs, OE struts - sagging front coil springs...

I knew the previous owner of the vehicle, it spent the majority of it's time on paved roads, and the driver (not the owner) weighed in at close to 300 lbs, the drivers seat is tired and the mounts were broken - it's really not surprising that the front drivers side spring had sagged.

[30ONA]

How does the panhard rod come into play when your static height is 50mm higher than stock. If not adjustable I'm assuming you end up with crabs.

[Kor3y101]

30ONA wrote:

I'm assuming you end up with crabs.

This can also happen after a good night out..

[Grags]

300NA yes for a spacer just cut out same pattern as the thicker nolathene type of spacer you would buy and sit it between the top of the spring and the spring seat on the chassis because the top of the spring is usually the flat part.
Obviously not a massive lift with that but a good cheap way of adjusting heights or for offsetting the weight of accessories like bulbar/winch

Panhard Rod - it's only 50-55mm lift? - test it yourself and see what the difference in diff position is between stock height and current height, can't be much I imagine