[rmd1]

96 v6 lwb vitara. Took the vitara out to the forest for a spin and pulled up to look at a track. Got back in to drive off and noticed the clutch was only about an inch from the floor. Pressing/pumping the clutch does almost nothing so had to crash box it all the way home (that was a mission in itself).
It has fluid in the reservoir.
Im thinking its the slave cylinder but though I'd ask on here first.

[fordem]

What makes you suspect the slave cylinder? It can literally be anything within the clutch system - so to speak, from the hydraulics to something inside the bell housing.

The SV series uses the same clutch release lever as the SQ series, and on the SQ the lever is known for wearing & cracking at the pivot point, so I would assume it also happens on the SV.

The more I think about it, the less inclined I am to see the slave as the culprit - unless it's not properly bolted down - if the fluid is being pumped to the slave, the piston has to move or the fluid leak out, if the fluid was leaking out, the reservoir would not have been full, and if the piston was moving, it would push the lever and operate the clutch.

Since you're not losing fluid, the possible suspects are the clutch master or something internal to the bell housing.

[rmd1]

My mistake. Is there a way to test the master cylinder and the clutch release lever without removing the gearbox. Also is it possible that it has anything to do with a noisy thrust bearing?

[rmd1]

OK so I was just investigating and had a look under the dash and noticed a small amount of fluid (few drops) coming out of the hole where the rod goes in that attaches to the Back of the clutch pedal. Is it possible the master cylinder has failed without loosing much fluid? (Know absolutely nothing about clutches or hydraulics)
Also I was looking on ebay for a new master cylinder and found one that fits a sv620 and another that fits a baleno 1.8 and a sv620 are they the same part or is ebay lying to me (again)

[fordem]

The SY418 (Baleno) & the SV620 do use the same clutch master cylinder, and yes it is possible for the clutch master to fail without losing any fluid - the clutch master has two rubber seals, a primary and a secondary, the primary pushes the fluid to the slave and the secondary prevents fluid from leaking out - a worn primary will allow fluid to leak into the space between the primary & secondary seals instead of pushing it out of the master to the slave.

At this point it sounds like you have problems with both the hydraulic and the mechanical side of the clutch - if necessary, you can try to determine which one is causing the clutch not to disengage by eyeballing the slave pushrod whilst someone else pushes the pedal - if there's no movement it'll be the master - either way you're going to have to rebuild/replace the master so just do it and get it over with, and if there is a noisy throwout bearing, you're going to have to go in there anyway, so, the advice is the same, just do it.

[pete_79]

Have a look at the firewall where the clutch cable goes through on the engine side.
I'm not a vitara guy, but I recall seeing a few people with clutch issues finding the firewall cracked around the cable mount which gives you heaps of pedal travel.
Can't say for sure if it was your model that had this problem though...??

[rmd1]

fordem wrote:

The SY418 (Baleno) & the SV620 do use the same clutch master cylinder, and yes it is possible for the clutch master to fail without losing any fluid - the clutch master has two rubber seals, a primary and a secondary, the primary pushes the fluid to the slave and the secondary prevents fluid from leaking out - a worn primary will allow fluid to leak into the space between the primary & secondary seals instead of pushing it out of the master to the slave.

At this point it sounds like you have problems with both the hydraulic and the mechanical side of the clutch - if necessary, you can try to determine which one is causing the clutch not to disengage by eyeballing the slave pushrod whilst someone else pushes the pedal - if there's no movement it'll be the master - either way you're going to have to rebuild/replace the master so just do it and get it over with, and if there is a noisy throwout bearing, you're going to have to go in there anyway, so, the advice is the same, just do it.

I'll check the slave cylinder as soon as I get someone to move the clutch pedal for me.
And I'm trying to avoid dropping the gearbox for as long as possible cos it needs a rebuild or replacement and I don't have the money atm.

[rmd1]

Where is the slave cylinder im getting a friend to help me soon and need to know what side to jack up.

[rmd1]

OK I found it and determined it has to be the master cylinder as the slave doesn't budge at all

[fordem]

pete_79 wrote:

Have a look at the firewall where the clutch cable goes through on the engine side.

This model has a hydraulic clutch

[rmd1]

Is the a step by step procedure for installing the clutch master (seems pretty straight forward) and bleeding it as I seem to recall something about bleeding the master itself out of the car but have no idea.
On my old d21 Navara I had to bleed it from the master cylinder joint first then from the slave.
Are the cheap ebay vacumn bleeders any good or just a waste of money as I'll likely have no one to help bleed it

[fordem]

There is a "bench bleeding" procedure documented in the service manual, once that has been accomplished and the master re-installed, it's usually possible to let them "gravity bleed" - fit a length of clear tube from the bleed nipple long enough to reach a jar on the ground below, loosen the bleed nipple and as the fluid line drains down because of it's own weight, it pulls fresh fluid through the master from the reservoir.

I'm not too impressed with vacuum bleeders, cheap or otherwise, I've seen occasions on which the vacuum draws air in past the bleed nipple threads, there is no air in the line, but you keep on seeing bubbles in the bleeder.

[banga]

I had a weird clutch issue in my v6 before chased it and it was a half snapped pedal bolt. All the fluid was there but clutch wouldnt engage. Took ages to figure it out as the pedal still worked but it obviously wasnt get full range of motion.

[rmd1]

Can anyone tell me what the gasket is that's mentioned in the pic please does it just go between the firewall and master cylinder

[rmd1]

Can anyone tell me what size clear hose I need when bleeding the clutch please

[rmd1]

So I installed the new master cylinder today and I now have a clutch but the pedal has about 2-2.5 inches of free travel before it does anything. Is it possible I have underbled it or done something wrong. I followed the instructions in the service manual as closely as possible with no luck and its doing my head in.
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated

[bumstein]

Is it spongy or does the pedal firm up if you pump it a couple of times? If there was air in the system I’d expect symptoms like that

[rmd1]

It feels normal once it engages its just the free play at the start. I have unscrewed the rod as far as I am willing to and rebled it about 2 dozen times and it got firmer but it didnt fix the free play. Other than the free play the clutch seems to work fine now and it selects all gears no problems but i just dont want to get stuck in the middle of nowhere and have to crash box it home again

[bumstein]

Ah I must have been sidetracked.. I’m not such a clutch expert

Clutch free travel should be about an inch or so I reckon.. have you got any more adjustment in the slave cylinder push rod? I’m not familiar with vitaras sorry so I’m stabbing in the dark a bit

[rmd1]

Pushrod is adjusted out as far as it will go without the bit falling off the end its only held on by a few threads

[bumstein]

Ok. Is there any adjustment at the pedal assembly end?

For example:



Also important I guess is whether or not it’s completely disengaging the clutch when it’s pushed right down

[rmd1]

I'll check if there is a pedal adjustment or not when I get a chance and when I get my stands back ill try and see if it fully disengages the clutch. i am pretty sure the way to test this is to put the car on stands and have it in gear with the clutch pressed and see if the wheels spin but correct me if I'm wrong

[bumstein]

Sounds reasonable. You might be able to tell with the motor running and clutch in, pop it into various gears and see if it grinds

I’ve read a few posts (not from verified reliable sources mind you) that say if your on a flat surface and pop it into first with the clutch all the way in it will roll forward if the clutch isn’t disengaging. But imo that doesn’t account for the clutch being ‘partially engaged’, but not enough to overcome the rolling resistance.

However, with it in first and clutch pedal pressed, slowly release the pedal and you should be able to feel where the clutch starts to grab. Like on a hill start, find that friction point. If that friction point is all the way at the bottom of the pedal travel then that’s an issue. If the friction point is somewhere in the middle (or more likely one third-ish of the travel from the bottom of the pedal travel) then your about right

[rmd1]

OK so I finally sorted the problem the clutch was engaging about 1-2 mm off the floor so I thought something was definitely wrong so I decided to compare the old master to the new one to see if anything was different. Turns out one of the previous owners has had the same problem so someone welded a nut onto the back of the part that attaches to the pedal to allow more adjustment (like in the pic) so swapped it around and it is back to normal and working perfectly.
Thank you to everyone for their input and ideas.

[bumstein]

Good result