[gibson_339]

Hi all, first post on here. My partner and I are the proud owners of a brand new Jimny, automatic in Blue.

I've had defenders in the past, and looking forward to many years of fun and reliability (i hope) with the Jimny after countless issues with the Land Rovers over the years.

Just some observations and questions regarding the new model: I'm really enjoying the auto to drive, it changes cleanly and revs lower than the manual at freeway speeds, and so far over the first 1800kms i'm averaging 7.3 l/100km which i'm happy with. I test drove the manual too and thought it was great as well, but my partner really wanted an auto so decided on that. I am aware of over-heating issues with the "old" automatic Jimnys though, and i'm a little bit worried about the long-term prospects of owning the auto. Are there any differences with the new autos compared to the old ones? Should I be looking at additional cooling options? Regular ATF changes? I live in Melbourne so for the most part extreme ambient temps arent a problem. I also dont do any extreme rock-climbing or anything like that, probably 70% on-road, 30% light-moderate offroad and dirt roads.

At least there is some peace of mind with the 5 year warranty now, so plenty of time to decide if we want to sell it at some stage and get a manual instead, but I hope it doesnt come to that as I love the car as it is. Just dont want to be facing $10k for a new auto transmission 6 months outside of warranty.

And on a different topic, if anyone else with a new Jimny is wondering, Thule 951 gutter feet and 762000 square bars fit the car nicely and look very similar but a lot cheaper than the OEM ones Suzuki Australia is offering.

I've also had Supertrim seat covers measure up my car and will be offering a pattern soon. I'll post some pics when they have the first ones made up for me.

Cheers everyone

[sideways]

IMO, it depends what you want to do. If you're leaving the car largely standard then I wouldn't worry about it. You could fit an aftermarket cooler and temp gauge but I'm confident Suzuki would kick up a stink about your modifications if there's a warranty claim. Still, if you're planning on keeping it for more than the 5 year warranty then it may be worth doing, by that stage there will likely be an updated model anyway.

I can't speak for the new model, but the past models TCM does keep track of ATF temp and there is a limp mode for over temp.

By and large, I think the Jimny auto trans problems are blown out of proportion. Certainly, they don't hold up to outright abuse but they seem perfectly adequate in standard or mild vehicles and hold up to more modified vehicles with a bit of care. We'll have to see with the new model to see what has been changed, they do have 20% more power to deal with now. I'm keen for parts and workshop manuals to get online.

That's impressive fuel economy, I never get economy that good out of my auto past model Jimny.

[gibson_339]

sideways wrote:

IMO, it depends what you want to do. If you're leaving the car largely standard then I wouldn't worry about it. You could fit an aftermarket cooler and temp gauge but I'm confident Suzuki would kick up a stink about your modifications if there's a warranty claim. Still, if you're planning on keeping it for more than the 5 year warranty then it may be worth doing, by that stage there will likely be an updated model anyway.

I can't speak for the new model, but the past models TCM does keep track of ATF temp and there is a limp mode for over temp.

By and large, I think the Jimny auto trans problems are blown out of proportion. Certainly, they don't hold up to outright abuse but they seem perfectly adequate in standard or mild vehicles and hold up to more modified vehicles with a bit of care. We'll have to see with the new model to see what has been changed, they do have 20% more power to deal with now. I'm keen for parts and workshop manuals to get online.

That's impressive fuel economy, I never get economy that good out of my auto past model Jimny.

Thanks mate, yeah I do wonder if the auto concerns are a little blown out of proportion.

Btw, just did a quick google search and found this mentioned in a few reviews, couldnt find any original documentation from Suzuki though: "As for the automatic, it has also been redesigned to offer less friction and better fuel economy". That would imply its also more efficient, possibly explaining how its able to cope with the extra power and torque?

[ZUZUKI]

One of the bigger problems with Jimny autos......is the owners, who maybe are newbie 4WD owners, attracted by a cheap car. They don't have a lot of 4WD experience & go climbing steepish fire trails & the like. Maybe they take the step to 4-Hi, but might not take the step to 4-Low. the car will keep climbing hills in 4-Hi until the auto cooks.
Not sure about the limp mode over temp, or maybe the drivers ignored it??. I have seen 2 examples of this happening - one was a new customer, with a new car (about 4 years ago) - we fitted some 215/75R15 M/T's & suspension, he went out for a play to test out his new kit & cooked the auto in it - didn't shift to low range. No warranty on stupid. He was looking at an insurance claim, not sure how he went with that though.

Fun facts: the Auto runs 4.3:1 diffs, while the manual runs 4.09:1.......but
Top gear (4th) in the auto is 0.697:1 (3rd is 1:1), while the manual (5th) is 1:1 - no OD ratio.
No wonder is screams a bit at highway speed, however, means if you have a manual, you can swap in auto ratios for a 5+% reduction which perfectly compensates for 235/75R15 (works out to 733.5mm / 28.9" overall diameter), but it looks like even 30x9.5R15 will fit in the wheelarches.

Rgs, Michael

[Gwagensteve]

Use an OBD Bluetooth reader to monitor trans temp. Try and keep it under under 100C.

Steve.

[vet 180]

ZUZUKI wrote:

One of the bigger problems with Jimny autos......is the owners, who maybe are newbie 4WD owners, attracted by a cheap car. They don't have a lot of 4WD experience & go climbing steepish fire trails & the like. Maybe they take the step to 4-Hi, but might not take the step to 4-Low. the car will keep climbing hills in 4-Hi until the auto cooks.
Not sure about the limp mode over temp, or maybe the drivers ignored it??. I have seen 2 examples of this happening - one was a new customer, with a new car (about 4 years ago) - we fitted some 215/75R15 M/T's & suspension, he went out for a play to test out his new kit & cooked the auto in it - didn't shift to low range. No warranty on stupid. He was looking at an insurance claim, not sure how he went with that though.

Fun facts: the Auto runs 4.3:1 diffs, while the manual runs 4.09:1.......but
Top gear (4th) in the auto is 0.697:1 (3rd is 1:1), while the manual (5th) is 1:1 - no OD ratio.
No wonder is screams a bit at highway speed, however, means if you have a manual, you can swap in auto ratios for a 5+% reduction which perfectly compensates for 235/75R15 (works out to 733.5mm / 28.9" overall diameter), but it looks like even 30x9.5R15 will fit in the wheelarches.

Rgs, Michael

I believe you are the wrong way around on that. I remember the manuals running 4.3 and the autos running 4.09. Also keep in mind the new Jimny runs 195/80’s Stock so they are a little taller and thinner than the old jims


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[vet 180]

sideways wrote:

IMO, it depends what you want to do. If you're leaving the car largely standard then I wouldn't worry about it. You could fit an aftermarket cooler and temp gauge but I'm confident Suzuki would kick up a stink about your modifications if there's a warranty claim. Still, if you're planning on keeping it for more than the 5 year warranty then it may be worth doing, by that stage there will likely be an updated model anyway.

I can't speak for the new model, but the past models TCM does keep track of ATF temp and there is a limp mode for over temp.

By and large, I think the Jimny auto trans problems are blown out of proportion. Certainly, they don't hold up to outright abuse but they seem perfectly adequate in standard or mild vehicles and hold up to more modified vehicles with a bit of care. We'll have to see with the new model to see what has been changed, they do have 20% more power to deal with now. I'm keen for parts and workshop manuals to get online.

That's impressive fuel economy, I never get economy that good out of my auto past model Jimny.

This x10. They are blown a bit out of proportion. I drive in high range in deep sand in 50 deg heat for hours at a time. I cant think of anything worse for any auto. I would say my car has done around 10,000+ kms of that type of driving and 100,000 of highway at 120-140 kph. I do have a cooler now but only because of the bigger tires. It was fine before stock. With the bigger tires the converter flares a little more so needs the cooler.

On the jimny I actually think too cold is a bad thing and why they don’t shift up to 4th until there is a bit of temp through the box.



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[Gwagensteve]

If the problems with the Jimny auto were “blown out of proportion” then autos would be easy to find in wreckers and the price of Jimny autos would be similar to AW-4s or trimatics. They fail all the time.

I’d agree that adding cooling and/or a plumbed gauge would void the warranty for the driveline, but if trans temp can be pulled from an OBD reader, I’d be right onto that.

I’d suggest that by the time trans has thrown a code or gone into limp mode it’s already toasted.

The inhibitor for overdrive is when engine coolant is cold, not the auto, this is for emissions. “Overcooling” an auto is impossible in a temperate climate. Auto trans fluid works perfectly down to ~-20c or so.

[markmo]

Gwagensteve wrote:

If the problems with the Jimny auto were “blown out of proportion” then autos would be easy to find in wreckers and the price of Jimny autos would be similar to AW-4s or trimatics. They fail all the time.

Or it could be that there were a lot less made/sold (especially in later years)?

[Gwagensteve]

That would result in low demand though yes? It’s not like people are converting manual jimny’s to auto.

Wrecker pricing is the perfect example of supply and demand. Parts that nobody wants or parts in oversupply (falcon alternators, commodore V6’s) are almost free.

The price commanded for Jimny autos is ample evidence of their unreliability. If the threads on here weren’t enough. Anyone who has never had a gauge on a Jimny auto or hasn’t had one break thinks they’re just fine.

This is no reflection on the new model- we just don’t know enough about it. In the absence of any data or even anecdotal evidence, I’m just advocating the OP monitor temperatures, same as I would for a previous generation Jimny. Use will dictate whether the factory transmission heater is adequate for them or not.

[markmo]

Gwagensteve wrote:

That would result in low demand though yes? It’s not like people are converting manual jimny’s to auto.

Wrecker pricing is the perfect example of supply and demand. Parts that nobody wants or parts in oversupply (falcon alternators, commodore V6’s) are almost free.

That's true, I was more thinking about the reduced number of Jimnys and especially auto Jimny's in later years (airbag restrictions) and what i would call an aging fleet. But you could be right, I just strongly agree with ZUZUKI and vet180 that the usual Jimny owners are short a few brain cells when it comes to mechanical sympathy.

[ZUZUKI]

vet 180 - I'm quoting from the single sheet flyer of spec. available from Suzuki Dealers in Australia, dated January 2019.
I may well have it back to front, but then so has publication no. TSPSUZ2948.

I work at Piranha Offroad / Seriously Suzi, and what a mad house that can be......
The number of calls we get, asking if we have a usable Jimny auto (the answer to date has always been, no), just anything that will go, so they can patch the car up & sell it.
The number of calls we get, from owners offering us a cheap Jimny to wreck, because it has a buggered auto, but is otherwise in good condition - just too expensive to fix.
Is way too many to be seen as isolated problems.

They seem to be made, not quite of glass, but are certainly not 'robust' - I would suggest, that along with the rear diff, the auto is just adequate for it's purpose. There is not a big margin built in that can cope reliably with much more than moderate use in a stock car.
More weight, more wind resistance, bigger tyres, un-caring or un-sympathetic driving etc and they will be pushed to their limits & often beyond.

I agree with Gwagen in that if the auto's been cooked, the damage has been done. They don't seem to be able to 'recover' or handle multiple episodes of overheating. It's days are numbered from that point forward.
Always exceptions to any rule, & vet 180, yours is going ok you say - plenty of other people have had issues.

Rgs, Michael

[pete_79]

Wrecker prices for all Jimny parts are stupid, no point just picking out the auto as an example.

I’ve been quoted over $1000 for a set of 5 spoke alloys with toasted tyres and almost $2000 for a transfer case, and that was after shopping around wreckers in NSW and QLD.

Just jump on carsales and see how many people are selling 2014/15 model Jimnys for the price that they bought them new.

People like to shit can Jimnys for all sorts of faults, but there’s no denying they have a strong market for them and prices for everything to do with Jimnys consistently show how strong that market is.

[alien]

It's strong but very niche market though =)

[vet 180]

It’s as simple as this:
The jimny auto transmission has had no obvious recalls ever
The jimny auto transmission has had no major issues with warranty due to unreliability
The jimny auto transmission in stock form drives better than 99% of 4 speed autos in 4x4’s
Surprisingly in a lightweight Suzuki the jimny transmission is not as suitable to big power and big grip mods as a transmission originally designed and used in a 2 tonne V8 4x4, I know it’s a bit of a shocker but it’s true.

In a nutshell in standard or near standard form the jimny auto transmission is a very reliable unit, drives very nicely (for a 4 speed) on and off-road (its one of the very few autos in a modern car that can properly hold gear at rev limiter for example and it shift clean and swift on road). For big power and grip mods there are better options to start with.

Suzuki have over 15 years of data with this transmission, if they decided to modify and reuse it they have the data to make an informed decision. The only problem I have ever heard happen with the jimny auto is 3rd gear clutch packs. I severely doubt these remained the same if Suzuki re-used the auto.


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[gibson_339]

Thanks for all the info. I think I've got some peace of mind now and shouldnt be too worried about it. As i said, I decided on the auto mainly for my partner who isnt very kind on clutches and manual transmissions in general. But I find the auto surprisingly suitable on-road, and very easy and efficient off-road. Coming from a defender with quite low low-range reduction gearing, I've found that I'm using low range in some places where high range might have been fine in the defender. But this is probably best for the auto anyway, revving away slightly higher in low-range than slugging along with the torque converter unlocked in high range...is that logic correct??

And yes I've invested in a OBD bluetooth reader, I'll report back on the transmission temps after i've got some data.

Btw, fuel economy on a trip i did with roof racks, awning, with air-con on a 35 degree windy day with highway driving and a bit of low-range was 7.8 L/100. Still pretty happy with that considering the conditions.

[alien]

re: Revving - This is a suzuki. Life begins at 3,000rpm and it'll sit happily around 3-4,000 all day long. Not sure on new Jimny gearing, but 100km/hr and 3,400rpm in 5th is normal in a Sierra. Auto would be lower, but gives a good guide coming from a Defender.

[Gwagensteve]

vet 180 wrote:

It’s as simple as this:
The jimny auto transmission has had no obvious recalls ever
The jimny auto transmission has had no major issues with warranty due to unreliability

Sorry, I don't want to sound pedantic, but that's not how recalls work.

Recalls (outside of America in general and definitely in Australia) are voluntary. Generally, a recall will only be issued if the potential consequences of a failure are life threatening, and the failure rate falls outside the calculated permissible range. In the US, the use of so called "lemon" laws and government mandated recalls can result in examples of generally poor design or engineering being recalled/scrapped etc.

There are sites around that list all recalls for each model. it's easy enough to see this for yourself. I'll use an example - the Bentley Arnage. It has been subject to a number of recalls for fuel leaks associated with various hoses in the fuel system, but not a single recall for pushing head gaskets out, wearing camshafts or tappets, which they are 100% known to do, because even though those things are design (or manufacturing) flaws, they aren't life threatening

In Australia, accelerated transmission failure would NEVER trigger a recall. If it was, every auto Hilux would have been recalled by now because, like Jimny's, their transmissions fail readily. Along with 200 Series fuel injectors, ZD30's, and a heap of other examples over the years of well documented and frequent failures that the owner is stuck with. All the manufacturer has to do is muddy the water with "offroad use" or "modifications" and the owner gets railroaded into paying themselves for what is reality a design fault. That's why there are many US recalls that are never applied here - just because of the different basis of consumer law in the US.

Quote:

The jimny auto transmission in stock form drives better than 99% of 4 speed autos in 4x4’s

Ok, sure. you're entitled to your opinion. I don't have one - it does the job just fine.

Quote:

Surprisingly in a lightweight Suzuki the jimny transmission is not as suitable to big power and big grip mods as a transmission originally designed and used in a 2 tonne V8 4x4, I know it’s a bit of a shocker but it’s true.

I don't know what a "big power and grip mod is" The fact is the gearbox is at the limit of its torque handling capability as installed in a Jimny. So drive the car at or near peak torque and the box will generate a great deal of heat - there is no headroom engineered into the gearbox. Not every big 4WD has lots of headroom in it's gearbox. (hilux, early Dodge ram 12V cummins) An AW-4 in a Vitara has lots of headroom so it runs much cooler. This is basic engineering. Search auto trans temperature vs life and it's pretty clear what's going on. and it why I simply advocate monitoring temperature so you know what you're doing to the transmission.



For ease of reference,

175˚F= 80˚C
195˚F=90˚C
220˚F=105˚C
240˚F=115˚C
260˚F=127˚C
295˚F=146˚C
315˚F=157˚C

It's not hard to see 120˚C on a Jimny trans temp gauge (if anyone ever fitted one, they'd know)

Quote:

Suzuki have over 15 years of data with this transmission, if they decided to modify and reuse it they have the data to make an informed decision. The only problem I have ever heard happen with the jimny auto is 3rd gear clutch packs. I severely doubt these remained the same if Suzuki re-used the auto.

We don't know what they have modified or reused.
We don't know if the ECU limits torque under some circumstances to reduce trans temp, if the trans cooler (heater) in the radiator is bigger etc. Powertrain management is now much more complex than it was 20 years ago when the auto was engineered for the Kei Jimny. It's quite possible suzuki have substantially revised the auto to run cooler, and if they have that's awesome and an OBD reader will confirm this readily.

I believe the torque limit on the auto is why we won't see the booster jet engine in the Jimny. I was surprised how high in the rev range peak torque is developed in the new jimny and I bet transmission life is the reason. Hit the trans with 120+Nm at 1500rpm and it can't hold the gear because there isn't enough line pressure.

[Gwagensteve]

gibson_339 wrote:

This is probably best for the auto anyway, revving away slightly higher in low-range than slugging along with the torque converter unlocked in high range...is that logic correct??

And yes I've invested in a OBD bluetooth reader, I'll report back on the transmission temps after i've got some data.

Absolutely. You want to be thinking higher revs, smaller throttle openings rather than low revs large throttle openings.


I don't know what the converter lock regime is in the new Jimny, in the old jimny it only locks in overdrive. In fact, you might be able to tell us from your observations driving the car - based on the "increased efficiency and reduced friction" claims, the modifications might be little more than allowing the converter to lock in other gears. You'll soon get a feel for if this is the case and you'll be able to "play" with the throttle position to work out when it unlocks. One "trick" manufacturers are doing now is running looser converters (higher stall speed) then they used to, but then locking in every gear. This gives rapid acceleration and then good efficiency on light throttle, but, obviously, offroad it builds heat. It's possible the converter lock is impeded totally in low range, along with overdrive. This used to be easy to override, but my guess is it will be harder now.

Once the converter unlocks you'll see a very rapid spike in temperatures. At low speed when crawling, the transmission will generally run coolish if you stay at low revs/light throttle but if you left foot brake you'll built temperature quickly.

To be clear I don't "hate" the Jimny auto - I wouldn't own a manual Jimny. Owners just need to be aware it's not a Turbo 400.

[ZookPenguin]

Hi all, which OBD readers would you recommend for this purpose? (i.e. brand/model)?
I've looked online and its not clear that the ones I've looked at can read transmission temps. Sounds like a very useful thing to get a handle on.
Thanks for the heads up on this...

[Gwagensteve]

It appears that scangauge II does, but I' sure almost any OBD scanner could be setup to do it. I would be very surprised if it wasn't an available parameter in the new jimny.

[ZookPenguin]

Thanks... they're cheap enough, I'll just give one a go and see if it works for trans. temps in my MY13 Jimny.
Cheers!

[Gwagensteve]

Oh, I don't believe the old model Jimny computer tracks trans temp. Just use a regular gauge sender on the outlet of the trans to the cooler. I was referring to the new model.

[ZUZUKI]

4X4 Australia have just done a test drive review in the March 2019 issue - not as in depth as I would have liked, but it is along the lines of everyone else's reviews - A lot of fun in a little, cheap package, but could have done a bit more with the mechanicals.

A quote is "At 110km/h both variants" (means auto & manual) "will sit around 3250rpm......" - this can only be if the diff ratio in the auto is indeed lower (numerically higher number) than the manual, to compensate for the 'overdrive' gearing of the auto top gear, compared to the 1:1 ratio of 5th in the manual.

Suzuki have a history of this - the SQ Grand Vitara has a similar arrangement, where the H25A 2.5litre V6 has 4.3:1 final drive (diff) ratio as a manual, but 4.875:1 as an auto - even though the manual has 5th as an 0.8:1 overdrive. The auto has 0.69:1 4th (top) gear.
I have swapped in auto gearsets in my manual, which has compensated nicely for the change in tyre size from 235/60R16 originally to 245/75R16 now.

Rgs, Michael

[vet 180]

ZUZUKI wrote:

4X4 Australia have just done a test drive review in the March 2019 issue - not as in depth as I would have liked, but it is along the lines of everyone else's reviews - A lot of fun in a little, cheap package, but could have done a bit more with the mechanicals.

A quote is "At 110km/h both variants" (means auto & manual) "will sit around 3250rpm......" - this can only be if the diff ratio in the auto is indeed lower (numerically higher number) than the manual, to compensate for the 'overdrive' gearing of the auto top gear, compared to the 1:1 ratio of 5th in the manual.

Suzuki have a history of this - the SQ Grand Vitara has a similar arrangement, where the H25A 2.5litre V6 has 4.3:1 final drive (diff) ratio as a manual, but 4.875:1 as an auto - even though the manual has 5th as an 0.8:1 overdrive. The auto has 0.69:1 4th (top) gear.
I have swapped in auto gearsets in my manual, which has compensated nicely for the change in tyre size from 235/60R16 originally to 245/75R16 now.

Rgs, Michael

Not sure on the new one but the old jimny has 4.09 auto diff ratio mated to a 1.3H and 2.6L transfer. The manual had a 4.3 diff ratio mated to a 1:1H and 2:1L transfer.

I imagine the new Jimny would be the same.


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[gibson_339]

Interesting...the Suzuki Australia site states that the final drive ratio for the manual is 4.09, and the auto is 4.3....have they really swapped them? my auto sits on about 3000RPM @ 100km/h, and from a video i watched online it looks like the manual is about the same.

[vet 180]

gibson_339 wrote:

Interesting...the Suzuki Australia site states that the final drive ratio for the manual is 4.09, and the auto is 4.3....have they really swapped them? my auto sits on about 3000RPM @ 100km/h, and from a video i watched online it looks like the manual is about the same.

Out of interest does the site also show gearbox and transfer ratio’s?


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[greyghost]

FYI

the first & second gen Jimny in Australia had 4.09 ratio's in both auto and manual.
I've pulled apart enough to know this, despite what the official spec sheet said

[vet 180]

greyghost wrote:

FYI

the first & second gen Jimny in Australia had 4.09 ratio's in both auto and manual.
I've pulled apart enough to know this, despite what the official spec sheet said

I have heard that before is aus also. I wonder if it is a unique to Aus thing. I know the manuals here rev their heads off on the highway and the auto revs a little lower


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[gibson_339]

The Suzuki aus website states gear ratios and final drive, but not reduction gearing

What does a previous gen manual Jimny rev at at 100 kmh?

But yeah, I’m definitely sitting on about 3000RPM, and seems like the manual does too.

Out of interest, what is the rough cost for an auto gearbox rebuild in a Jimny?