[saczel]

Years ago i bought a long range tank online from a place near Adelaide that made various 4wd accessories and one of the few to suit my SJ413 drover. It was hard to find then and must have sat around as the guy i spoke to on the phone said it would need a clean up and when it showed up it had a fresh paint job of what looked like hammertone enamel and plenty of surface rust inside. The car went through a flood and i removed the tank and drained it and it has sat around for nearly 10 years and not surprisingly has got plenty of surface rust inside again so i am thinking about just getting it hot dipped galvanised to fix this for good as it will be used up the beach a lot. Looking online there could be a problem with diesel but the g13a uses petrol so this might not be a problem as it is sulfur that can cause it to gum up. Anyone had problems with a petrol using galvanised tank? Searching online also shows replacement galvanised tanks for other vehicles in the US but some forums over there say it’s ok and others it will cause problems. The tank is made of 3mm steel with internal baffles and might not coat everything properly. I thought i would check with people on here before i ring up the galvo’s.

[Eddy]

... 3mm?

Hahaa ... It's heavy enough without adding galv ... I wouldn't bother.

My thoughts (if the rust is bad) would be to pour a few litres of vinegar in, and let it sit for a day, on each "face" (ie 1 day on left side, one on right side, one on end etc)
Then give it a good rinse out.

[fordem]

There are liquid rust "neutralizers" than can be used to clean the internals, the ones I've used convert the rust to some sort of black oxide, and there are also liquid sealants that can be applied - this last is common in the aviation industry for coating the irregular shaped and sometimes inaccessible fuel tanks used on general aviation aircraft - google sloshing sealer for more details.

[bumstein]

Electrolysis might be worth a crack, could be a good way to get the rust from every nook and then seal it with Bill Hirsch tank sealer or similar.

Here’s a random vid of the process.

https://youtu.be/aEsVPoSEWJ0

Incidentally I couldn’t watch that vid without saying “fwee Wodderwick!!”

[saczel]

The electrolysis method looks interesting and probably good enough for inside but i am also a little worried about the outside getting a few rust spots going in a hard to get at position latter on. Over the years i have had filters clog up from internal rust from either air moisture or creek crossings and once it starts it’s an ongoing problem. After the intitial flood cleanup i did slosh around rust converter but it looks like there could be more rust behind the baffle. I might see what the galvo’s think. I tried to post some photos and even after cropping they are still too big.

[sideways]

I think they're aftermarket but lots of series Land Rovers have galvanised fuel tanks.

[saczel]

The galvanisers i have used in the past are still on holidays but their website mentions spin galvanising which could be good to get an even coating everywhere. Almost back to work myself so will give them a call next week when i get the time. A good sand blasting and acid bath will sort it out. It currently weights 22kg empty and by my calculations holds 76L. Some extra weight down low is no problem as the high top drover always felt like it was about to roll over on fast corners. Not much room for jerry cans anyway.

[shakes]

I'd use this over Gal. You'd be swapping your fuel filter on a daily basis for weeks if not months.

https://www.por15.com/POR-15-Fuel-Tank-Repair-Kit

[shep]

Por 15 is the go

[saczel]

At least i have another option with the por 15. The galvo’s i was planning on using are no more and the others are still on holidays. I also have to think about the pick up pipe which is welded in doesn’t get filled in so i still have to ask more questions from the galvo’s.

[bumstein]

Might start to find it hard to find POR15 stuff here now although there’s a few pots still on shelves. PPC who imported POR15 have switched to Bill Hirsch products. I’ve used both and prefer the Bill Hirsch, it’s very similar and has all the same benefits but I find it easier to work with.

If you can’t find POR15 tank sealer then either look for Bill Hirsch or PPC have their own kit now. Re-labelled the same stuff as best I can tell.

http://www.ppcco.com.au/por19.html

Oh and there’s two places I know of who have heaps of POR15 stock still, one in WA and one in SA. If you’re near either then I’ll let you know where to hit up

[saczel]

Thanks for the info everybody but will first try to see if galvanising is possible. The spin galvanising looked good but now that place is shutdown the others i have yet to ask might not do it and i think it will come down to which method does not clog up the pick up pipe. It has a steel 6mm id pipe welded in place which i think normal galvanising will totally fill up. I need to ask around a bit. I am in Brisbane and there is probably 2-3 places i can try now.

[Gwagensteve]

The more I read this thread the more is sounds like the cure is worse than the disease.

Light surface rust inside a fuel tank is inconsequential. Rinse the tank out and use it. Change fuel filters as required. Most factory tanks by the time they're 20 years old have some light surface rust in them. It's just not a big problem.

[saczel]

Ordinarily i agree and most tanks would be fine but this one is extra crusty inside and thought it might be easy enough. I now know that a lot of metals react badly to ethanol so various plating techniques are not suitable for fuel tanks. Electrolysis clean and Por15 looks like the go. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/23y9bz641xwy ... MKIua?dl=0

[Joe]

I seen a vid on Instagram a while ago, fella had a rusty lr tank he put a heap of gravel and petrol (i think) in it sealed it then strapped it to a wheel, the car was on stands he let it run in gear spinning around and around. From what i remember it worked really well and he's running the tank now.
Ill see if i can chase up a video or details on what he used.

[Gwagensteve]

Swishing some coke around in there would probably work too to get back to clean steel which is all a tank needs to be. I wouldn't be coating a tank internally in anything. it's going to come off sooner or later.

[saczel]

I was a little worried about that as well. Online i keep finding people who have done the por15 and not cleaned tank properly complaining about it. Currently trying to find the draining bung for it and buy a cheap battery charger for electrolysis cleanup, that looks the way to do it, thanks for that Bumstein. Just ordered a inspection mirror with light for a better look inside, i wish i had bought a snake camera a few years back, the cheapy’s on ebay look iffy.

[bumstein]

Pleasure to have been of some assistance! Post back when you’re done and let us know how it goes

[Technotron101]

Hey guys, I'm the guy Joe mentioned with the long range tank I sorted out. Not a whole lot of time to do a write-up, but on my Instagram I have a saved story there with all the info. @thebazookitravels

Basically wirebrushed what I could first, made a hydrochloric acid from vinegar, then put it and gravel in, and spun it using the back wheel of the car as Joe said haha, then drained it and the gravel, flushed it with a bicarb soda and water mix which neutralised the remaining acid, and have been running the tank ever since, easily 25000km later, across the outback and beyond.

100% doable, 100% worth doing, check my story highlight on Instagram for the pictures and videos

[Brenno]

Great video!

[303zuke]

Technotron101 wrote:

Basically....... made a hydrochloric acid from vinegar, ..

How??

If I give you some lead, can you turn it into gold?

[saczel]

I did a trial run on a old horse shoe just to see how things work. I bought a bag of sodium bicarbonate from a pool shop which works at 1tbs/1L and most sites said to use sodium carbonate, nearly the same thing and the bicarb can be turned into the carb by heating in oven at 120-180c for 20 minutes which i will try latter. I will give it another shot latter on today to see if the nails will actually loosen up, 4 hours so far. it was totally rusted up from being the house lucky horseshoe for at least 70 years. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zlaif7bcleuu ... gy5Wa?dl=0

[bumstein]

Looks like it’s working!! I really want to try it now!!

I wonder if you could put a whole block or head in to help clean out the water jacket

[saczel]

I read a old post from a US site that said someone had put a whole chassis in a pool and used a welder as the power source, probably in dc mode but that sounds a bit dangerous. One guy even put a entire paddock find motor in to pull apart and got it working in no time. Some sites said stainless is ok for the sacrificial anode and others said thats bad because it gives off chromium and one site said lead is the best. It looks like lots of methods work just some take longer than others. After 10 more hours the horseshoe is noticeably better and the nails are almost loose, just starting to wobble. The bicarb mix probably is getting too contaminated but still works fine and a guy supposedly has a setup going non stop in his business where he changed it every year. I will try changing bicarb into carb to see if it is quicker. The surface area of the sacrificial anode is also a factor apparently so i used a old star picket which just clears the tank flange once i make a insulation fitting for it. The dumb chargers are best for electrolysis as the smart ones keep changing their cycles or can’t figure out it’s not a battery. Overall it’s pretty easy and can scale up. I will try straight water next and add a tablespoon of carb at a time to get the best concentration.

[bumstein]

I like your commitment to trying different methods!! I’m keen to give this a crack myself, have to find something good to de-rust.

[saczel]

I am kind of stranded here at the moment trying to save money and work has yet to pick up yet so am looking for things to do. If my batch of carb is what i made it seems to work better. I used a proper mixing spoon this time instead of my previous generous ones and the charger on the 6v setting is putting out 10v at the clips and that doesn’t change in straight brissy tap water. No circuit at all in straight water but on 1tbsp it started a circuit and kept slowly dropping to 6v at 12 tbsp to 10L. My gut feeling is thats what it needs to be. Lots of bubbles and for some reason the horseshoe doesn’t patina up as much between sessions as it did with the bicarb. Previously the bicarb was 8.5 ph, pretty harmless, but the carb went off the max of the ph strips and feels really slimy so ph has increased and a bit more caustic and the steel is more silver than before, the bicarb sent it black and it patina’d up real quick. Waiting on rubber plugs so i can start on the tank. I will update photos of the last link as i go.

[bumstein]

Intriguing!! Pics and the recipe!!

Interested the 8.5 gave it the patina, I’m guessing it ionised (not sure if that’s the right term) the rust rather than removing it?

[Marko_SJ]

If you have a really rusty tank you must use without alternative, you could try some stuff of that stuff called RedKote.

It's a complete pain in the posterior to use and smells terrible, but it prevents rust flaking off and clogging filters. Used it on a motorcycle after removing as much scale as possible.

[saczel]

The bicarb mix did remove the rust but overnight it was covered in a fine surface rust and the steel was black coloured. When i used the stuff converted to the carb mix it was definitely not as dark and after a few days it has stayed rust free and both lots were rinsed under the tap and air dried. The converted carb mix does a better job for sure and i will keep watching how long it takes to re-rust. Still waiting for things to turn up.

[303zuke]

Be careful doing this:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zlaif7bcleuu40q/AADTDXI7mWW1wzXhZxgugy5Wa?dl=0&preview=Photo+22-1-20%2C+2+24+53+pm.jpg

Make sure the item is COMPLETELY submerged, as the line where the item is in the solution and in the air will erode, creating at best a cosmetic blemish and at worst create a stress riser leading to fracture. This also applies to items like a fuel tank to ensure there isn't a bubble inside, as the presence of Oxygen will erode the steel.

Read up too on Hydrogen Embrittlement if the part is subject to structural stresses.