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Post Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:50 am 
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I have a 16b efi out of a baleno running a denso 70amp alternator. I have read threads regarding upgrading to a 110amp alternator but was wondering if anyone is getting away with a 70amp with something like a 650cca battery and getting away with a small amount of winching. Is it possible or will I have no chance, I have a dominator 12.000 pound winch or would there be a better winch to work on this setup

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Post Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 6:00 pm 
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I’m sure you could get away with it, but I’m not sure it’s ideal.

Firstly battery capacity does not really help winching. The current draw is huge and would likely run your batter flat fairly pronto. So you’ll be relying on your alternator

Here’s the first line amps compared to load.

With no load your looking at 65 amps, up to 420 running it full biscuit. The better the alternator the less chance of it all getting a bit much for the power supply

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Post Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:40 pm 
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Spud43 wrote:
I have a 16b efi out of a baleno running a denso 70amp alternator. I have read threads regarding upgrading to a 110amp alternator but was wondering if anyone is getting away with a 70amp with something like a 650cca battery and getting away with a small amount of winching. Is it possible or will I have no chance, I have a dominator 12.000 pound winch or would there be a better winch to work on this setup


You would be better off with a smaller winch imo. 2 major benefits include you are on the limit in terms of alternator and weight.


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Post Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:32 am 
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Some thoughts - I sort of assumed this is your first winch. Forgive me if that's inaccurate, but this stuff might be useful for someone else if not yourself.

I'm well know for being an (electric) winch hater. It was many years before I put a winch on Piggles and I did use it quite a bit once it was on there. it was a 6K Warn and my car is probably at least as heavy as a loaded vitara. I run a D34 optima and a 100A alternator. I've had no issues with winching.

I've now gone all silly and thrown a high mount at it, but fundamentally, I don't really like winches and winching. I'd rather build a car to do the job rather than drag it places on a rope. Anyway, here's my take.

Pretty much all winches other than 4500lb ATV winches draw around 400A at full load.

That said, most people don't ever run a winch at full load - if you were watching the winch you'd back off and re-rig before it slowed down that much - under 2m in a whole minute with your finger on the button feels very abusive.

As has been said, no practical alternator can meet the demands of winching. Bigger batteries will give you a longer pull before you need to stop, but once that bigger battery is flat, it will take forever for the the alternator to recharge your battery.

Cca isn't a measure of battery capacity, it's a measure of battery internal resistance. High CCA is important for winching because you don't want the battery to be the bottleneck, but you need high amp/hour to be able to winch for long(er) periods without having to stop to recharge.

A couple of notes on the Denso alternator. They won't deliver anything like their advertised output when hot, and Suzuki sized them to be *just* adequate for the electrical demands of the vehicle. If you increase electrical demand, you need more alternator, not more battery, because that's a losing game. The battery is just a tank. if you have a bigger pipe out of the tank than the pipe in, you're going to end up with an empty tank regardless. A winch is an awfully big pipe out of the tank.

No suzuki needs a 12K winch. Everybody seems to think bigger is better, but the penalty is a heavy and bulky winch that's very slow in the working range (2-6K) where it's working 90% of the time. Whilst I don't really advocate them, I've seen a 4.5K ATV winch do amazing things on a Suzuki.

The key is what sort of driving you do. 90% of the winch use I see is very light "assist" winching where the car can almost drive but has run out of traction. Speed is nice in this application so you're not running over the cable and the winch can keep up with the car in, say, 1st low at low rpm. We're rarely winching an immobile car out of bonnet deep mud, but I never 4WD alone, we're never required to get to a certain point as a destination, we're not stranded in the outback and going to run out of water and die if we can't winch. That's an application where it does't matter how slow the winch is, it just has to work.

Most of the common winch installs I see won't every achieve their rated capacity because the cabling and battery terminals will never flow 400A, and I've seen a car with a D34 Optima and a Warn 6K melt a battery terminal off the battery (not me, thankfully. Hooray for vice grips). I'd actually be surprised if many cheap winches could make their nameplate capacity if used through the supplied loom/solenoids etc. I guess I'm suggesting a very well installed "smaller" winch might outperform a "big" winch struggling against poor wiring/terminals etc. Back when winches were expensive spending a bit of money on good terminals, cabling etc didn't seem like a big deal but now winches are so cheap it seems like a bigger deal.

In short, I think every G16B needs a 100/110A alternator, even moreso when winching. Make sure the charge cable is up to the task and is properly fused, ideally using the Ford under bonnet fuse box that accompanies the alternator. Use something like a D34 optima that will deliver high CCA and will tolerate abuse. Use high quality terminals and cabling for the winch. Observe sensible duty cycle when winching - 1min winching, 5 minutes at high idle (see why fast winches are your friend when you do that?)

Duty cycle and letting the battery recover is very very important because battery voltage will drop significantly and when you hit the winch button. If the battery is already low and the alternator maxed out when you hit the winch in button under load, the huge load spike will ishut down the computer/ignitiion/fuel pump will and the car won't restart. Now you have a flat battery, a tight winch cable and a stuck car. Happens more often than you think. In fact, this happened on the last trip I was on with a Jimny with a stock alternator, 12K winch and a long hill. The duration of winching was just far too long. car ended up being recovered by a Sierra with a high mount warn on the front in no time at all, (again, not me) but that's because it was club run - it was no big deal. different story if you're by yourself.

And that brings me to my last point. If this is your first winch, be aware of how it will effect your driving and risk perception, because the winch messes it up. Without a winch you'll approach an obstacle, sometimes get out and walk it, spend a while working out a line, and think about the consequences of that line not working. Can I back out? what happens if.... etc etc. With a winch on the front, you'll approach an obstacle with the mindset "what canI winch off" and "how far away is the nearest tree" I've seen it happen for years and it's happened to me too - it's normal, but it's also detrimental to driving skill and thoughtfulness. It's one of the reasons I like the first winch people buy being a hand winch, because they're so slow, heavy and inconvenient to use, they reduce the risks associated with being stuck but not the inconvenience, so they don't mess up the driver's risk assessment so they don't reduce driver engagement and skill.

Lastly, winches are often forgotten, generally located in the first place in the car to get smashed into something/submerged, in the weather, and generally never considered until you need them. Additionally, lots of bullbar designs make them a pain to remove/service/even see. It's super common for people to run a winch cable out and the winch not work. I had an albright solenoid fail last time I checked my winch and it would only power in, not out. Total pain. It didn't happen anywhere important, but it could have.

Have a look at the Carbon 9.5K. Very very well designed winch. I don't know what the price difference is to a dominator, but its a very good product.

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Post Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:44 pm 
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I have a winch on my ranger just installed for a cape trip but other than that I don’t use it. I totally agree winching is something that is only there to be used once in a blue moon and I see a lot of people dragging there cars around by there winch all day. Currently my suzi is more than adequate for most tracks at glasshouse mtns which is where most driving happens running twins lockers and 33’s with custom guard chop and braced diffs no lift to keep CG very low. It currently serves me very well. The winch is merely as a just in case situation to possibly get through a unpassable area to continue on a track rather than turn around. As I would like to go to some locations that I haven’t been.

I have no problem fitting a larger alternator. Can’t seem to find the one that everyone talks about as yet, only 100amp I found has the wrong mounting style I’ve googled 110amp Mitsubishi Ef el Ford and many other combinations but no luck on finding a 110 with the right mount style link to the correct one ? I have a dominator sitting in garage collecting dust but ordered a mean mother edge 6000lb today to use and will just replace the cable for rope.

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Post Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:11 pm 
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Just go to a wrecker and pull the alternator from any EL/EF 6cylinder Falcon/Fairmont/Fairlane. I believe the 110A version was in the Fairmont/Fairlane Ghia only.

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Post Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 7:12 am 
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Was looking to buy a new one. Not keen on secondhand one with unknown condition,

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Post Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:43 am 
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I’ve had a good run with second hand ones. Personally, I’d still go to a wrecker as you’ll need the (very) long M10 mounting bolt and unique nut, charge wiring and fuse box. If the alternator is all good you’re onto a winner. If not you can bolt in a new one knowing the fitting and wiring is done. I’d also rate a factory Ford (Mitsubishi made) alternator over a non-genuine replacement.

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Post Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:38 pm 
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Gwagensteve wrote:
I’ve had a good run with second hand ones. Personally, I’d still go to a wrecker as you’ll need the (very) long M10 mounting bolt and unique nut, charge wiring and fuse box. If the alternator is all good you’re onto a winner. If not you can bolt in a new one knowing the fitting and wiring is done. I’d also rate a factory Ford (Mitsubishi made) alternator over a non-genuine replacement.


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