[TZAR]

take out every leaf apart from the top leaf and you will some awesome flex but no driveabilty

Less leaves = more flex

Thinner leaves will flex better than thicker ones.

Make a cstom set from carry van rears and some sierra springs. cost you about $20 and half a day

[royce]

less leaves = lower spring rate != more flex

all things remaining the same longer main leaf will net more travel from top to bottom, less leaves will make them softer

to get more flex you need a combination of both, along with proper shocks and decent bushes and geometry

[_noddy]

im runing 3 leafs front and rear fronts ok but rears not working for me

[just_cruizin]

Being that both yours are NT it'll be hard to do a 1/2 Ruf as the rear mount isn't that big and there's not much room to redill a new hole. That leaves a full Ruf which involves moving the front mounts forward, nominally between 40-50mm works best. This means either a chassis extension or as Bruce has on Casper reversed LJ mounts

[just_cruizin]

The more arch generally will mean a stiffer spring, not always though. Easiest to find some second hand rears and much around with springs to get it work the way you want. Mind you pulling leaves sux, very time consuming.

[_noddy]

i have 2 set of stock springs so yeah and i got wt diffs for it so if i put them in will that give me more flex because the spring will be closer togeter and the diffs ae wider

[royce]

yes that will help the wheels move up and down easier

[BlueSuzy]

need a nOoB cad technical drawing

[TZAR]

BlueSuzy wrote:

need a nOoB cad technical drawing

[steve]

i'd like to know how much improvement in you would get from WT diffs on an NT chassis.

I put it to you (everyone), that the amount of effort/expense is not worth the result.

Are we talking about 1inch more flex? is that worth it? and what can achieve with that much more flex? a better looking flex photo by an inch?

[Taff]

why do you hate WT diffs in a NT so much?

[steve]

you must have seen one of my previous post on the subject

well, it's like the old twin stick craze, anyone remember them?

i don't hate the idea, it just seems sometimes people talk up a mod and people get excited and no one actually has any experience with it, or has some kind of illusion that the mod is beneficial.

[steve]

PS. plus, someone has to keep the bastards honest

[Taff]

Its true.. I would never do WT diffs for more flex, I am however doing it to get better steering lock with 33s

[Brett]

twin sticks could be good if you have lockrights in the front, put it in 2wd low to turn so you don't pull this face

fire suit is on and ready

[royce]

if you can turn in 2wd yopu can turn in high range anyway


I think before we go any further on WT NT wide narrow long short flat arched

whats the definition of 'flex' how do you describe flex?

its how high up a ram you can go, that wheel travel, as you are measuring how far you can make a wheel move vertically

its not really a measure of spring stiffness thats more going to affect the ride

is it how well the wheels track along the terrain and keep traction and drive? I have seen cars that can keep pinned to the track but have bugger all wheel travel on a ramp or in deeper ruts, likewise I have seen cars with massive flex but are all over the show on bumpy tracks.

I have had 3 goes at my idea of what it is but I cant come up with anything, I used to think my old 1 litre used to flex well but didnt have massive amounts of travel or anything, just seemed to work well, where my WT had a shit load more travel but in some cases the suspension didnt do much and other times it was great

I'll leave the NT WT conversion thing for now, only cause I cant some up with a decent reason for it but I still will be soon

[_noddy]

if i did a ruf insted of extending the shackel could i just do reverse the shackels would that work

[steve]

a proper RUF might involve extending the chassis. reverse shackles involve work also.

What;'s the goal noddy? what do you want to achieve?

all these mods involve work, and if you're in to that stuff that's ok, but it can take heaps of mucking around for minimal results. a bit like extractors and twin sticks

[_noddy]

no not really just what as much flex as i can get

[royce]

Shackle reversal I don think works rear well on a suzuki and you end up with a shackle hanging down in the middle of the car

done properly with an extension and the right springs and short shackles it gives you wheel travel without dodgy big shackles and wobbly shit everywhere, but its a bit of work to do

[2stroker]

The WT/NT thing has been around since the first LJ80 came out. Back then we were putting LJ80 diffs in our LJ50's or if you had an LJ80 you could keep your diffs and put an LJ50 chassis under it. When the Sierra's came along we were running 1litre Sierra diffs and transfer under our LJ80 chassis's. I have even seen NT housings cut up and welded together to accepted 2 long axles with the diff in the centre to retain the LJ50 transfer in a LJ50 chassis, it had really really big flares.

WT diffs in NT will improve the vehicle over the rough because of the leverage advantage on the spring. More often than not the light weight of the Suzuki limits its ability to fully flex out springs and attain full wheel travel unless the springs are very soft. The disadvantage of a very soft spring is that it will usually sag prematurley and may lack height. With more leverage you can run the spring rate up a bit for height without disadvantaging the abliity for the spring to be put through it's full range.

Early leaf sprung Jeeps had their springs mounted further inward than the later Jeeps because they were designed with offroad ability in mind rather than on-road manners. Once 4x4's started being popular enough to be used as everyday transport manufacturers improved their road manners by moving the springs out toward the wheel which then detracted from offroad ability.

I have had all the combinations over the years searching for that little bit extra. I know from experience that WT/NT does help, however like everyone else has said it is a lot of work for the gain that you get. Just like RUF the WT/NT debate will continue because some will see that the improvement does not warrant the work involved while others will be prepared to do the work for any small gain.

[_noddy]

ok thanks for all the info and debates

[mcwilly]

i know this has been talked about heaps as i have been reading alot of the posts however there are that many ways of doing things im getting confused.

so i will let you know what i have so far what im looking at doing and i'll listen to the comments to suit where im going.

i currently have a spoa ( on standard springs) and 2" body lift (not coming out).

i am looking at doing a ruf and drop shackles. now this is where the fun starts.

i was thinking standard rear springs up front, then hilux fronts in the rear or should i run 2' ome in the rear?

the next thing is i cant weld so ill find it hard to do a chassis extension so if i redrill the rear perch on the front and put drop shackles in as my extended shackles (as they are longer then standards when pinned) would this work?

the other option is get another set of rear springs for the front just run drop shackles in the rear with the standard springs and do the ruf.

end result i want is a ruf and drop shackles any help would be great.

oh i'll be using superior drop shackles

thanks
chris

[tanshi]

you will need to redrill or move spring mounts around if you use standard sierra rears up front. If you can find a set of Suzuki carry rear springs, you only need extended shackles. no redrilling or welding required.

people have varied results with lux springs in these. because they are a wider spring 60mm in stead of 50mm they fit tighter in the hangers and sometimes dont flex as well. sierra lifted rears, are pretty good. if you wanted longer springs than that, early swift leaves / mightly boy are a little longer, but will required you to make up custom packs i believe.

[mcwilly]

oh k sweet so i could run the carry rear springs and drop shackles in the front and either use lifted ome or preferable use the early swift or mighty boy springs and drop shackles in the rear. what size shackles are required for the best angle with the carry springs. where will i find carry springs anyone have any they dont want?

[tanshi]

i have 2 inch extended shackles and my angle is just under 45 degrees. on the front.

I personally dont like drop shackles but to each his own.

lj81 rears will also do for the front as they are the same length as carry.

just give the wreckers around your area a call. a mate of mine has managed to pick these up for $20 a set i believe.

[brendan]

hijack but may help. Ive got a ruf and ive redrilled the spring hanger back 20mm and also redrilled the perches. I dont remember why i did both i think it was just to extend the wheel base? As far as i remember if you only drill the hanger the diff stays in the same place?

[zookernator]

If you do a RUF without moving the front mount forwards, the drop shackle will crash on itself.. cause the shackles are shaped like this > and not like a normal shackle: /

You have to move the front hanger to be able to get the right angle that the drop shackle needs.

Heres my set up, obviously not at full flex in the front, this is zook RUF, and lux fronts in the rear

[mcwilly]

my diffs moved forward an inch by redrilling the spring perches now so id just leave that as is.

whats a lj81?

i have a set of 2' extended shackles and a pair of rear superior drop shackles. so if a ruf flexes well enough id put the 2' extendeds in the front and run the drops in the rear.

the carry /lj81's go in the rear and my standards go in the front correct?

[tanshi]

an lj81 is the ute version of the lj80. (mid to late 70s model suzuki)

the carry springs are shorter than the standard rear sierra springs so they go in the front.

the setup i run is carry springs in the front. 2" lifted in the rear.