[Andygoodbloke]

Hi all
I have purchased a project needed to be finished.
It is a Suzuki Samurai 1989 1300 manual. I thought it was a SJ413 but when I looked at the chassis plate it said SJ50
It has had lots done already such as all the suspension and shocks, but maybe over time Polyurethane bushes will be added, body is tidy but will need a paint once everything is done. Rust has been cut out and have questions about what people have done to keep it away.

Looking on youtube I found a bloke who filled everything full of "Chasis Save" paint which covers the rust and stops the spread and turns it into a coated metal- have others in Aust or NZ used this - where do you start and stop, could you clean and paint the whole underside of the car?

The vehicle has rust in the centre pillar behind the left front door in the top corner of the pillar where is joins the roof. - what causes rust here? how do you prevent it coming back? Is it condensation which causes it or blocked water channels? I thought about putting a plate over and welding on to make it legal, but what other measures can be taken to prevent its return, such as a breather plate, would that work, where would you get a small breather plate from? can you attach it to what I think would be a structural piece of body

Other problem areas Im thinking about are the sills under the doors and have seen people going really thick with a replacement box section to make rock slide sills which won't ever break being in the USA they said 1/8th box section to 3/8th box section, plus bottoms of doors, and rear corner between the fuel filler and the bumper where it fills with sh1t over time.
What plans/ solutions have people taken to prevent the return of the cancer?
What works, what doesn't?
Is it worth drilling holes and spraying anti rust primer everywhere I can? does the Chasis saver paint work?
Please advise so I don't waste time or money before I begin
thanks Andy

[Andygoodbloke]

I have received my project vehicle.
It is without brake pipes - please advise the best sets to get and send to Christchurch NZ.
Started working on the body and plating over rust holes already, then brakes as it is at a mates place and want to tow it, so brakes would be handy.
On receiving the vehicle I was advised the rear brakes had been replaced with new everything inside the drum, the front calibers were off and one incomplete so needs putting back together and attaching. To my dismay I found all the tubing/ pipes had also been removed, which means more work to get it sorted.

Who has a good set of brake pipes for a decent price + freight to NZ?

[Jezzer]

So all the metal brake lines from the master to front and rear rubber lines are missing?

You can try find some second hand ones locally. As they will be hard to ship without getting damaged.

You could also try Safe r brakes on Fitzgerald ave they will be able to make some new ones


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[Andygoodbloke]

Thanks Jezzet, that is where I have already been and will return to if no wrecked option is found
In fact most of me is thinking do it once, do it right and just go to them.
Cheers Andy

[Jezzer]

You can get some out of India on eBay but a lot of their stuff is for a long wheel base so not sure if they will suit.




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[Andygoodbloke]

Brake update
The front brakes are complete even with new pads and just need to be bled through once the rears are done

From the same brake layout plan I found and pictured, I have got the brake plumbing sorted down to 3 lines needed, being 15, 18 and 19. 18 is a flexible hose which I am tempted to make longer but do not know how long until I get the other 2 pipes

Can anyone take pictures and measure so I can get a set made?

A wrecker was visited and an old bonnet off a Mitsubishi was purchased for metal so the remaining body work can be done. The only other body issues are around the rear wheels where some one has cut the body back and left a long curved hole where it needs to be filled and a strip added to mount the rear flares. I plan to rivet and cold chemical weld as it seems to be stronger and less chance of blowing holes in the body - has anyone else used this method?

In the pic there is a new front guard set to be bolted on and has not yet, but want to paint the inside of the guards before attaching as the assembly goes around the inside of the engine bay. The new front has flared metal guards off a 1992 Samurai, so if anyone has 2 more for the rear let me know.

After that a new rear bumper and lights as it currently has nothing there - let me know if any about as it maybe after market Chinese ones which are cheaper than second hand ones

Then onto electrics - that will be fun

Cheers Andy

[Andygoodbloke]

Brakes are done, managed to get an old set out of a wrecker, but there is so many varieties and think the brakes changed on an annual basis, all plumbed in and running. Had a slight leak under pressure, but fixed now. The probable cause of the rust is holes drilled through the roof gutter letting water through - I hope as these were filled.

The rust had patches cut, saved the edges however the 2 materials were too thin for a Mig welder, even with very low power and holes were blown easily no matter what or whoo welded it, so chemical cold welding was the answer with a 2 part glue applied to each surface once mixed and then clamped back into place, 24 hours later all done. ready for a lite sand and smoothing into the rest of the body.

Next mission is getting the back bumper on. The vehicle is a 1989 Samurai, and thought it would have a metal bumper, but got a plastic bumper off a later model Samurai, I think it was about a 95, so have to make some brakets up to mount it.

[Gwagensteve]

Plastic bumpers were fitted to SJ80 Coil Sprung models 1996-1998. All leaf spring cars had steel bumpers, although Santana built cars may have varied from what I've seen, I don't think NZ received any of them.

It's your car but I would not be satisfied with gluing repair panels in place. They will propagate rust and will likely crack. If you're talking about roof repair it's a stressed skin. Using a copper backing bar (dolly) or making a joggle joint are two other options to allow welding of thin material where a butt weld isn't possible. Butt welding Sierra panels is difficult but it can be done with a regular MIG welder using 0.9 wire - I've done a LOT of it, however, it's not possible where there is any existing corrosion on the panel and is harder where the panel is heavily worked (i.e fold lines etc)

There were a number of different brake splits used as legislation changed. Suzuki were building for the world market which is why there was quite a lot of variation. Pre 1989 generally has individual brake hoses to each rear wheel, but only on "passenger" variants, LWB commercials still only had one line, It's hard to unpack.

[Andygoodbloke]

Hi Gwagensteve - the brakes makes sense, but glad I finally got that project sorted and working.

Thank you for the info on the later models having the plastic bumpers, not sure if I should use it, or take it back and try and get a metal one - will ponder that one.

As for the views on the repair, you will have to wait until the weekend and get some pictures up. The glue is designed to cold weld cars. Welding in cars has only been used in the last 30 years to cover up or modify vehicles. Almost all panels are now either glued or bolted, for example under side of your bonnet the support strips - I bet they are not welded and they are subject to frontal impacts. The front guards which are going on are not going to be welded on they have lots of little bolts
To stop the spread of rust, it has been thoroughly rust treated, plus it has to have a little filler over it and a good sand, plus what is that stuff they put on metal to stop rust and make the car look pretty - yes Paint. - I have previously asked why it would rust where it did and did not get a clear answer - if anyone can point me in the direction of a guide to stop the rust - I will be willing to read and follow
The welding the wire was 0.8 but the mig used is very new so on contact it sends a power surge which is great on thick material but not thin and that tends to blow the holes no matter how it is done. I have also found the thickness of the metal is not consistent due to the age, rust, use etc

Thank you for your concern regarding cold welding but it will be fine and strong as this is what it is designed to do.

[Gwagensteve]

I can assure you there is a great deal of welding in modern cars. No, bonnet skins are not welded to the frame because the spot welds would be visible and require significant body work to hide. This isn’t a new thing- Suzuki bonded the bonnet skin to the frame in 1983 when my sierra was built. The adhesive tends to fail. Of course front guards are bolted, for ease of assembly, alignment and repair. The use of more aluminium, magnesium and the need for dissimilar metal connections is driving bonding technology but where a steel part is being attached to another steel part welding is still the most prevalent, cheapest and most reliable solution.

It’s possible your bonded repair will outlast other areas of corrosion in the vehicle but it’s very dependent on parameters that are hard to control outside of the production line. I’d suggest welding is preferable. What product was used?

On that, I haven’t heard of a MIG welding process where a high inrush current is applied when the arc is struck as a “feature” because as far as I can tell that would be counterproductive. (Ie it would blow holes in the material before the amperage dropped to a sustainable level that produces a fully fused weld) Do you have any more information on this process? I’ve worked in the metal fabrication industry for 30 years and I share an office with a welding engineer. I’ll have a chat with him when he’s back in the office next to see if he’s aware of this being a thing- welding procedures would have to take it into account. Do you have more rails of the welding machine/model?

[Andygoodbloke]

I will look when next with the vehicle at my mates place, it is not a commercial machine used for the Mig welding, just a small weekend warrior one, the machine used is less than a year old, but it did keep blowing holes so that is why we went to the cold welding before it made the situation worse, and my friend doing the welding couldn't get the power low enough for it not to do it, so a combination of the welder used, thin material like welding paper led to us going for the chemical welding

The last vehicle I have replaced body parts on and had to cut the welds apart on, was a Mark1 Ford Capri from the 1970's

The Glue used is the pic below but the description says

Product details
Cold-Weld is a two-part epoxy system that provides strong, lasting repairs to metal and multiple surfaces. Mixed at a ratio of 1:1, it forms a permanent bond and can be shaped, tapped, filed, sanded and drilled after curing. At room temperature, J-BWeld sets in 4-6 hours to a dark grey colour. A full cure is reached in 15-24 hours. J-B Weld has a tensile strength of 3960 PSI and sets to a hard bond overnight. It can withstand temperatures up to 550°F (287°C) when fully cured.

Can be shaped, tapped, filed, sanded and drilled
Cure time: 15-24 hours
Strength: 3960 PSI
Cure colour: Dark grey
Great for household repairs, automotive projects, plumbing and marine applications, crafts etc.

Try it - maybe not to join chasis rails or cross members, but small holes in the body sure
Cheers Andy

[fordem]

Just as welds fail because of poor penetration, JB Weld et all will fail because of poor adhesion.

[Andygoodbloke]

Thanks Fordem
It was clamped in place with G clamps and left for 24 hours with a really thick coat on both surfaces so doubt this will happen. Just have to sand off the access which came out and smooth over ready for filler, a thin coat only

[laager]

....................

[Gwagensteve]

Yes, small/cheap mig welders won't generally allow low enough amps to weld panels easily. Use a copper dolly behind the joint and try 0.6 wire.

JB weld is a good product and I've used it a lot but it's not flexible. The roof flexes significantly, I suspect it will crack given time - it's not the intended application for JB weld.

[Andygoodbloke]

Thanks GwagonSteve, your suggestions are taken as always, but cannot get a copper dolly on the inside when welding from the outside.

the welder we are using goes down to 0.8 but as I said it surges on startup which makes it easier for thick material, but not thin.

Time will tell on the JB weld, I hope there is enough material in the patch and behind it to keep it from cracking.

I also purchased some paint for the body and like the look as it is a gloss with anti rust properties designed as a top coat, but another question for those who have repainted - how much paint do you need? how many litres? I worked out is is approximately 10.3 square meters, including windows, so without I am thinking about 7, how much paint will I need to cover 7 square meters?

Thanks Andy

[Jezzer]

I just painted mine in 2k. I ordered 3 litres of colour and had just less than a litre left over after giving it 3 coats

It was a two to one mix with hardener and thinner. So all mixed up just under 4 litres in total,


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[Andygoodbloke]

Here is the patch over the rust. The metal used was green painted off an old toyota.

I sanded down the edges and applied some filler yesterday and to save myself from ridicule I will put pics up once looking more like a car. Not a lot of filler / bog has been used as I hate the stuff as seen too many people not use it correctly and remake a complete wreck with the stuff only to crack or fall out when you hit something - not that I'm an expert.

Next onto the back bumper and sanding and filling the body to make it look how it should.

To go over it I found a paint which is anti rust, built in primer with a full gloss from an American company POR-15 - it is a bright red, but to me it is close enough that I won't have to paint door shuts or interior etc

Just have to find some one good with a spray gun once the prep is all done

[Andygoodbloke]

Filler slowly being used and sanded into shape around the patch and slowly blending it in - it takes time.

Back bumper has been put on and looks good, and onto the next body issue being the holes where the rear guard flares would sit.

For the sake of strength we decided to cold weld and rivet and fold around the bottom edge into the mud spray area around the wheel, then once in place add attachment points for the guard flares

The pics are what it should look like once finished, but the guard flares won't be added until after painting

[Andygoodbloke]

Latest progress shots
The picture of the hole around the rear guard is the bit being filled
Since the picture the patched area has been sanded and primed with a clear primer
It has taken a few hours of sanding so far, but quality take time and patience. On the inside of the wheel-arch you can see the fold and rivet which I am considering fiber glassing over to make it 4wd proof, or maybe painting it with underbody sealant which is a thick layer of rubber but may have to come back to that after inspections from certifiers - sorry the pictures are out of order

In the picture of the body, you maybe able to see the ready to prime repair behind the front door, it is now smooth all the way along and you would have to look for it to find it

[Andygoodbloke]

Right more progress
The vehicle no longer has major holes in it
Still sanding and getting things to look better, with the final filling and straight up to come. The back wheels arches and surrounding area no longer have issues.......
apart from being in the process of building a cover to go over the fuel filler hose as it is one of those things I don't want covered in mud, or to wear thin with gravel rash - drivers side back corner under the wheel arch is the filler pipe running from the tank then a sweeping 90 angle back up and goes through the top of the wheel arch before going out to the locking cap where the fuel is put in
- can anyone take a pic to give me an idea what it should look like as the wheel looks to have moved closer once I cover the fuel filler pipe and I am now questioning if things have been replaced or moved and how the cover (if there is one) should sit.

[Gwagensteve]

The filler hose cover is the least of your problems. They have to be diiscarded with large tyres and it’s no issue.

[Andygoodbloke]

So they are all a rubber hose and open under the wheel arch?

Thanks Andy

[Gwagensteve]

Yes, the splash guard mostly prevents road spray coming up around the rubber gasket and into the car. The hose is plenty durable enough.

[Jezzer]

Factory fuel pipe guard. And I’m only running 31’s and it has some rubbing


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[Andygoodbloke]

Thanks Jezzer

[BlazeOrbit]

it's likely condensation or water getting trapped in that corner. I'd check the drainage channels around the windshield and roof, they can get clogged. Welding a plate over it could work, but make sure you treat the rust underneath first or it’ll come back. As for the Chassis Saver, it does work pretty well if applied correctly, but I’d clean and prep the entire underside first—no point in sealing in any rust that’s still active. Drilling holes and spraying rust inhibitors can help, but just be cautious of where you're drilling, especially in structural areas. Keep us posted!

[Andygoodbloke]

Thankyou BlazeOrbit
I sprayed a lot of Rust inhibitor on, in and around the rust holes, they have now been filled and patched with filler slowly being added to blend back in (spray on filler is good)and believe I found the cause, holes being drilled in the roof gutter above and it dripping down and in - they have been filled. I will however clear all possible causes and test.
Do you have pictures or can explain where all the drainage channels are so I can systematically check and clear them all
There is a gutter around the roof edge but where else as that cannot be them all?
Thanks Andy

[Andygoodbloke]

More progress
The new front panels came out from behind the garage and got a got clean down and wire brush head on the drill used to remove all traces of rust, then primed with a clear coat primer which turns the rust black and seals it, then a good clean down and paint applied to the inside before it is put on as the motor is in the way otherwise - the next work session is to get the new front section on - silver on a red body is not the look I'm going for, red on red works for me

Also the first rust repair is now ready for top coat - ended up blending in nicely, of course more sanding before the final paint

The fuel filler hose got an easy solution after getting a pic from Jezzer and advised big wheels rub as the pic from Jezzer illustrates. I put a plastic conduit over it and cable tied it on.

Sometimes you work for hours and feel like you have gone backwards, but today with only a couple of hours work I feel like so much was done

The New front section in silver has metal guard flares - we tried to remove them - this is another easy job made hard - what is the best way to undo the bolts - I have tried screw driver, no good, power screw driver - stripped the posi drive, tried an impact driver - dented the metal around the screw to make it harder to get off by pushing it in, could not move it with a dot punch and hammer so cut one off with the angle grinder - how have others got these bl**dy things undone? They seem to be mounted into a welded on backing nut inside a tube in the shape of a tall thin triangle so not easy to reach if cut off as you cannot grab the tail and heat and grease - please help those who have tried and found a solution.

Thanks Andy

[Andygoodbloke]

More progress
Replaced the frpnt guards and grill, as painted now.
Swear words were said when undoing the chassis mount bolts only to have both snap without too much pressure. I ended up drilling them both out and replaced them with a larger bolt, apart from that unbolt the old, bolt on the new. The new front section has a few different mounting points, but it will work out fine. It i9s now one and some of the interior motor stuff returned to how it should be but more re-attaching will happen next time I get a chance, probably next week.

The wheels are wider than the guard flares so will have to add rubber flares onto the metal ones - a NZ law thing where the tyres have to be covered by a guard, and painted black to match the rear

Thanks Andy