[ball]

v.w.dave wrote:

In the morning I will try that first thing. (swop the wires) If that dosn't fix it I will be trying a new coil (I can get one from our parts store next door to try)
Start with the simple stuff first....
If I am still out of luck I will take the valve cover off andpull the plugs and recheck all the valve timing and TDC.

should have just put the rebuild money into getting a EFI

The simple stuff to me is to check the basic setup of the engine. Not simply start changing parts until something works.

Back to basics, it is only an engine. They do still teach basic 4 cycle theory when they train "mechanics" these days, don't they

This is why I call people like you spare parts fitters and not real mechanics.

It makes no difference what make or model you have in front of you. If something as simple as the timing has been setup incorrectly then no amount of parts swapping will help.

[ball]

v.w.dave wrote:

I think I need to just get a EFI. Will the 2001 balino 1.6 fit ?

Highlights my point.

Can't get 1 engine to start so we just replace it with one that does.

[v.w.dave]

My point with that statment was with the amount of hassel this has been I should have just done the efi.
Just yesterday I found a 1.6efi that is still in a 2001 balino that I can get the hole set up for $600. (complete running motor, wire harness, computer, air box......)If I had found that before I started this I would have gone that way.
The reason I am thinking it to be the coil is I think the spark is weak.
If you read the first part of this thread you will see I have gone over all the basics.
But as it was pointed out a few posts ago the suzuki factory book isn't the easiest thing to read. According to the picture I have it in time but I will try swopping the wires to see if it is out 180.
I think it will be easy to figure out with a clear head.

[ball]

Ditch the factory book.

Put the engine on TDC #1 and #4 cylinder. Confirm this with something in the plughole. Don't rely on timing marks.

Check which cylinder (#1 or #4) has clearance under both rockers. If it is #4 rotate the engine 1 turn until #1 has clearance.

Now confirm if the distributor is in the correct spot. If not fix that.

Put the plug wires in the correct sequence and you should be good to go.

This should work assuming you haven't messed up with the cam timing

These aren't late model high compression engines that require a super spark. What you think is weak is probably all that is supposed to be there.

My lawnmower has a better spark than shep's sierra and his runs just fine

[shep]

ball wrote:

My lawnmower has a better spark than shep's sierra and his runs just fine

true story

[v.w.dave]

OK Thank you. as I said that is most probably my problem and that will be the first thing I check.
Thanks for all the heads up I will let you know how it goes

[losfer]

swapping the leads will do the trick ....

also removing the dizzy and rotating the rotor button 180 degrees will work , and is the correct way.

when you timed the engine on top dead centre , you are actually timing it on the exhaust stroke of number one cylinder and the firing stroke of number 4 cylinder.

if you time up the engine then rotate the crank a full 360 degrees (the cam 180 degrees) so that the locating pin in the cam sproket is now facing up , this is the firing stroke of number 1 and the exhaust stroke of number 4.

HTH

[Ben_Sierra]

I had exactly the same about a week ago. Spin the dizzy rotor 180 degrees. You're on TDC on number 4, not number 1.

[Rockhopper]

Where abouts are you located V.W Dave?? I often work out Blactown way and may be able to come over after work and have a squiz at it if you like.

[v.w.dave]

I am in thornliegh. I swopped all the wires and still no start.... I will mess with it after work...

[2stroker]

Mate I have to agree with Ball, you need to go back and start with the basics as he has suggested.

Firstly

1. take rocker cover off
2. remove all spark plugs
3. remove distributor cap
4. turn engine by hand till number one piston is at top and both valves on number 1 are closed (if you can't get this to happen crank to cam timing is out and the timing belt will need to come off and be refitted so that it does)
5. in this position check to see that both valves are closed on number 1 and there is some clearnce on tappets
6. also check that rotor button is pointing at where number one lead would be when distributor cap is on

Once all this is right check the following

1. turn the engine over by hand and check valve clearance on each cylinder to ensure that you are not holding any valves open on compression, you can start with a cold setting of 0.12mm on both inlet and exhaust
2. when you put it back together make sure the leads are right
(remember firing order is 1,3,4,2 in a clockwise direction)
3. check your wiring, ensure distributor is plugged into loom properly, and that the engine earth has been refitted to the new engine etc.

Keep us posted...

[RIKSTR]

2stroker wrote:

Mate I have to agree with Ball, you need to go back and start with the basics as he has suggested.

Firstly

1. take rocker cover off
2. remove all spark plugs
3. remove distributor cap
4. turn engine by hand till number one piston is at top and both valves on number 1 are closed (if you can't get this to happen crank to cam timing is out and the timing belt will need to come off and be refitted so that it does)
5. in this position check to see that both valves are closed on number 1 and there is some clearnce on tappets
6. also check that rotor button is pointing at where number one lead would be when distributor cap is on

Once all this is right check the following

1. turn the engine over by hand and check valve clearance on each cylinder to ensure that you are not holding any valves open on compression, you can start with a cold setting of 0.12mm on both inlet and exhaust
2. when you put it back together make sure the leads are right
(remember firing order is 1,3,4,2 in a clockwise direction)
3. check your wiring, ensure distributor is plugged into loom properly, and that the engine earth has been refitted to the new engine etc.

Keep us posted...

This will get it going.

You are 180 out in the timing

[v.w.dave]

OK so I got to spend about an hour on it after work and here is how it went.
I just started it allllllll over from the start as suggested

1. take rocker cover off
CHECK
2. remove all spark plugs
CHECK
3. remove distributor cap
CHECK
4. turn engine by hand till number one piston is at top and both valves on number 1 are closed (if you can't get this to happen crank to cam timing is out and the timing belt will need to come off and be refitted so that it does)
CHECK
5. in this position check to see that both valves are closed on number 1 and there is some clearnce on tappets
CHECK
6. also check that rotor button is pointing at where number one lead would be when distributor cap is on
CHECK

And as asked of me, Once all this is right check the following

1. turn the engine over by hand and check valve clearance on each cylinder to ensure that you are not holding any valves open on compression, you can start with a cold setting of 0.12mm on both inlet and exhaust
CHECK
2. when you put it back together make sure the leads are right
(remember firing order is 1,3,4,2 in a clockwise direction)
CHECK
3. check your wiring, ensure distributor is plugged into loom properly, and that the engine earth has been refitted to the new engine etc.
CHECK

After doing all this it came time to start it and then ""Click-Click-Click"
F*%king battery was dead so I grabed the shop jump box and "Click-Click-Click" F*%king jump box was dead. So in my rush and excitment I went and grabed a new VW battery and the F$%ker wouldn't fit in the hole sooooooo I ran around looking for the shops set of jumper cables. By this time I was running like a mad man up and down the stairs from one workshop to the other and before I could get back to the zook to try to start it my Dealer Princeple stopped me and needed me to look at new car that had a check engine light on. SOOOOO long story comes down to I got it all exactly how it is ment to be and the zooki gods are still against me.....

I will charge up the battery in the morning and try it out once it is ready to go.....

THIS IS FRUSTRATING THE $H!t out of me.....

[want33s]

So what did you have to change? What had you done wrong?

[jimbo_jones]

[quote="v.w.dave"]

After doing all this it came time to start it and then ""Click-Click-Click"
F*%king battery was dead so I grabed the shop jump box and "Click-Click-Click" F*%king jump box was dead. So in my rush and excitment I went and grabed a new VW battery and the F$%ker wouldn't fit in the hole sooooooo I ran around looking for the shops set of jumper cables. By this time I was running like a mad man up and down the stairs from one workshop to the other and before I could get back to the zook to try to start it my Dealer Princeple stopped me and needed me to look at new car that had a check engine light on. SOOOOO long story comes down to I got it all exactly how it is ment to be and the zooki gods are still against me.....

quote]


got to hate that lol

[steak_knife]

want33s wrote:

So what did you have to change? What had you done wrong?

X2, you must of found something.

[v.w.dave]

I think the cam was 180 out. But honestly I didn't check anything I just took it all apart (pulled the timing belt off the valve cover off, dizzy out, spark plugs out)and started from the begining. This time I did exactly what 2stroker suggested and just simply ignored all the timing marks.
SO it is all 100% in time. The timing mark I was using ended up pointing strate downmeaning the cam key is pointing up. (exactly opisite what the book said ) And I thought the german translation for the VW was bad....germanglish can be tricky at times though

It is still a no start but I am hopefull for mid afternoon .....

[steak_knife]

Try Korenglish. German`s not so bad......

Iv`e found on any many car`s the timeing mark`s mean shit! Even in a couple of book`s thay tell you to ignore the mark`s.

Have fun..

[jimbo_jones]

hope get it going tomorrow

[royce]

going by that pic your on the wrong keyway slot on the cam gear, swap it to teh other one, time it up and you should have the keyway pointing straight down (stupid idea)

then set the dizzy to one and it should go

[ball]

If none of these tips work I think it is time for a flame job

You supply the fuel and I will bring a lighter

[v.w.dave]

steknig wrote:

Try Korenglish. German`s not so bad......

Iv`e found on any many car`s the timeing mark`s mean shit! Even in a couple of book`s thay tell you to ignore the mark`s.

Have fun..

See the trick with Germanglish is read the steps back to front then read it the right way. They like to tell you what you should have done not what you need to do if that makes sence.

[jimbo_jones]

is it going yet?

[v.w.dave]

NO....
The starter motor wont turn it over I think I fried it when I was turning it over a 100 times on sat and monday....

This is really starting to piss me off.

And no the motor is not locked up I can turn it over just fine by hand. And yes I did try using a different battery and yes I did try to jump it at the starter......
All I get is a half turn and nothing..... The starter is getting warm...
(insert every bad word here)
soon to be posting in cars for sale..............

HAHAHAHAHAHA

[v.w.dave]

I am at the point now that I am about to drop it off at SUZITECH and say let me know when its done....

The guy that had this sierra befor me has wires running every direction and relays in every hole you can find. I think after I get this motor running I am going to rip all the BS out and run a nice clean wire loom for all the spotties and winch and and and......

Why I dont know but there is a turbo timer wired in that I have no idea how to even set. Its covered in mud.....

Blahhhhhhh Just F---ing start....

[jimbo_jones]

your not having much luck sounds like what my boss did he's not very bright we had a dewoo lanos I changed the head gasket put it all back together and cranked it no compression (the lifters have to bleed up) any way my boss just cranks and cranks and cranks for about 20 min even after I told him to leave it so it can cool down anyway needless to say the starter went pop and no more crank I dont know how he survived this long if I didn't tell him to breath he would die

[steak_knife]

[v.w.dave]

I had my german mechanic help me actualy pull the old motor out and helped me assemble the new motor and get it in the sierra. Well he pulled the starter out of the old motor and put it back in this new one. So I didnt look at it before this all started.
Well that wonderfull story was all for this....
Well I pulled the starter out to pull it apart and see if it can be fixed.
Once again me not being zookie minded "yet" found something wierd to me. The starter motor had 3 wires going to it? Is this the norm? It had the one fat power wire with the loop on the end the norm smaller gauge signal wire with the push on clip the third wire was a small gauge wire just like the signal wire it was taped up into the wire loom with the signal wire. The main power wire and the 3rd wire were both under the 13mm nut. The signal wire was where it was ment to be.
Is that third wire ment to be there?
Now the engine was turning over before with wire there and as I said it looks like it goes into the factory wire loom.
Any ideas what it is and if it is ment to be there ?
I didn't take it off at first so I dont know.

Thanks for all the info so far.
It will run.... It will run... It will run... hahahahah

[jimbo_jones]

no it wont lmfao

[v.w.dave]

OHHH yes it will Greg my Suzuki tech gets back in the morningand I will be getting him to look over it all. He worked on them for 4 or so years so yahhh he is going to be my new best freind....
IT WILL RUN HAHAHAHAHAH